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#11
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ME Insurance
You motivated me to call AOPA. (I had their number handy and didn't
have Facer's.) The lady I talked to said they all use the same underwriters, so if an agent has accurate information, they should all have the same capability about attaining insurance. She said 1) No one would insure my student in a Twin Comanche until he had at least 500 hours, rating or no rating, and 2) She could put him into a Seneca or Cessna 310 with as little as 200 hours, without a rating. So if what she said is accurate, the local insurance guy that my student is using has provided inaccurate information. My student has been trying to buy a Twin Comanche, and yet he may not be insurable in that aircraft. He's also said that he couldn't get insurance without the rating and that he couldn't get it regardless in something with lots of horsepower like a 310. Thank you! On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 17:17:03 GMT, Kyler Laird wrote: Scott Draper writes: Can a multi-engine student get insurance for his own ME airplane, based on his instructor's ME time? One insurance company is saying "no way"; they'll only insure him AFTER he get's his ME rating. I'm wondering if this is universally true. I bought our Aztec before I even had my Private. My partner had his MEL though. We were both on the policy as soon as I got my ASEL. I was just required to spend 25(?) hours dual and then 15 hours solo in the plane before I was insured for carrying passengers. Call Andy Facer at Facer Insurance. (It's storming here and I'm offline so I can't look up the info.) --kyler |
#12
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ME Insurance
It may or may not be a horsepower issue, but a combination of factors
involved with certain models. Each model has characteristics that make up it's accident survivability profile and an accident history each it's own. Whether high stall speeds, high or low Vmc or Vyse speeds, thin fast wings, low stall speeds, fat high lift wings, rudder size, cabin size, cabin structure, engine size, turbochargeing, prop rotation, pressurization, complex fuel systems, or center of gravity issues, every twin is different. When we were shopping for insurance for our Aztec we were told that insurance companies look favorably on Aztecs because they have "enough" horsepower to provide adequate single engine performance, but not "too much" power that single engine control problems overwhelm the pilot. Our agent told us that the Aztec premium would be less than a Apache of equal hull value given our times and ratings. He also went through the list of companies willing to insure "transition" pilots (moving from HP Singles to Twins) and noted which company would insure which models with what pilot experience levels and for what size pile of cash. YMMV, but it sounds like you're on the right track and that the agent at the AOPA insurance agency knows what he's talking about. Good luck, Jim |
#13
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ME Insurance
Scott Draper wrote:
: You motivated me to call AOPA. (I had their number handy and didn't : have Facer's.) The lady I talked to said they all use the same : underwriters, so if an agent has accurate information, they should all : have the same capability about attaining insurance. : She said : 1) No one would insure my student in a Twin Comanche until he had at : least 500 hours, rating or no rating, and Two years ago, when I was looking at Twin Comanches I called a few companies including AOPA. The only company that was willing to insure me (0 Multi time) was Avemco. They wanted $8000/year. There were no ridiculous limits on the policy: I needed to get a multi rating and could not carry pax until I had 25 hours solo. I could go solo with the appropriate endorsements. It all depends on how much you are willing to pay. -- Aaron |
#14
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ME Insurance
could not carry pax until I had 25 hours solo. I could go solo with
the appropriate endorsements. How much total time did you have? |
#15
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ME Insurance
insurance companies look favorably on Aztecs because they have
"enough" horsepower to provide adequate single engine performance, but not "too much" power that single engine control problems overwhelm the pilot. Interesting insight, thank you. I may suggest to my student that he look at an Aztec. |
#16
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ME Insurance
Scott Draper wrote:
: could not carry pax until I had 25 hours solo. I could go solo with : the appropriate endorsements. : How much total time did you have? I think I had 350 or 400 hours total at that time. I may have misread your initial statement into "he needs 300+ hours IN TYPE before they would insure him" instead of "he needs 300+ TOTAL HOURS before they would insure him". If the second statement is true, perhaps he should consider a single for a couple hundred hours. -- Aaron C. |
#17
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ME Insurance
he needs 300+ TOTAL HOURS before they would insure him.
If the second statement is true, perhaps he should consider a single for a couple hundred hours. The insurance lady said he needed 500 hours TOTAL in any airplane before they would insure him at all in the Comanche. Only 200 for something like a Seneca or a 310. The reason we're pushing for the twin is that the boy is airline bound and doing this initial training in the twin will give him a good leg up when he starts having the total time needed for a commuter. If we're lucky, then if he sells the airplane for what he paid or better, the training and time building will be very cheap. |
#18
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ME Insurance
Anybody know why the high requirement for the twin Comanche? -
compared to the 310? Dave On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 21:27:16 -0600, Scott Draper wrote: he needs 300+ TOTAL HOURS before they would insure him. If the second statement is true, perhaps he should consider a single for a couple hundred hours. The insurance lady said he needed 500 hours TOTAL in any airplane before they would insure him at all in the Comanche. Only 200 for something like a Seneca or a 310. The reason we're pushing for the twin is that the boy is airline bound and doing this initial training in the twin will give him a good leg up when he starts having the total time needed for a commuter. If we're lucky, then if he sells the airplane for what he paid or better, the training and time building will be very cheap. |
#19
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ME Insurance
The gear on a C-310 is taller than the twin Comanche and further to
fall which may cause more damage because you hit the ground harder. Thus higher the cost of the insurance. LOL It could have something to do with the accident statistics. |
#20
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ME Insurance
Having flown both a standard Twin-Comanche and the 310K model I'd expect
the difference be due to the accident statistics as others have suggested. Personally I liked the Twin-Comanche better - it was more challenging to stay on top of and man could it come down when you needed it to. I think it would be difficult to fly a Hi-Penetration approach in the 310, but the TC did it just fine. I'd expect the insurance rates for the Twin-Comanche-CR to be lower than the original model and lower than the 310 -- maybe along the lines of the early Seneca -- but that's just my speculation. -----Original Message----- From: Dave ] Posted At: Saturday, December 31, 2005 8:48 AM Posted To: rec.aviation.owning Conversation: ME Insurance Subject: ME Insurance Anybody know why the high requirement for the twin Comanche? - compared to the 310? Dave On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 21:27:16 -0600, Scott Draper wrote: he needs 300+ TOTAL HOURS before they would insure him. If the second statement is true, perhaps he should consider a single for a couple hundred hours. The insurance lady said he needed 500 hours TOTAL in any airplane before they would insure him at all in the Comanche. Only 200 for something like a Seneca or a 310. The reason we're pushing for the twin is that the boy is airline bound and doing this initial training in the twin will give him a good leg up when he starts having the total time needed for a commuter. If we're lucky, then if he sells the airplane for what he paid or better, the training and time building will be very cheap. |
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