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#21
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Class B airspace notation
On 2007-12-17, Rip wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote: writes: What is the practical difference between "above, but not including" (e.g., +12) and "above and including" (e.g., 12)? I think it serves when you have two airspaces with no margin between them. For exampple, one is 12/SFC, the other is 70/12+. So at 1200 feet you're in one airspace, and at 1201 feet, you're in the other. If they were specified as 11/SFC and 70/12, the space between 1101 feet and 1199 feet inclusive would be outside either airspace. Wrong. Study the TERPS. Again, Anthony, you're a simulator freak, not a pilot of any kind. Your posting of incorrect and misleading answers is a waste of everyone's time. What you "think" is irrelevant. It's easy to put trolls into the kill file. However I haven't found a good way to kill troll fodder like this in SLRN. Any suggestions? -- Doug Carter |
#22
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Class B airspace notation
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#24
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Class B airspace notation
Nomen Nescio writes:
Because you're a dip**** Nope, that's not the reason. |
#25
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Class B airspace notation
Airbus writes:
Trying to read between the lines of this incredibly weird post, it would appear the writer is suffering from the illusion that "fractional" airspace altitudes in a given segment are indicated both for the charted (Class B) airspace and for the underlying (Class E). Readers should be advised of the fact that this expert, offering his "presumptions" may never have seen a sectional chart, and certainly has never studied the subject - does not know how to read the chart. Okay ... so explain why the charts include + and - for altitude limits on airspaces? I already know the answer, since I looked it up ages ago, and I've given it, but I'll try again: If you see, say, 50/SFC for a Class C, and 80/50+ for a Class B above it, it means that the Class C extends from the surface to 5000 feet inclusive, and the Class B extends from 5001 feet to 8000 feet inclusive. Without a plus or minus sign, there is an ambiguous margin of 100 feet between the airspaces. For example 50/SFC for the Class C and 80/51 for the Class B means that the area between 5001 feet and 5099 feet inclusive is in neither airspace. Since this could cause problems if someone were to actually try to fly through this thin slice of air, calling it uncontrolled, the + and - are used to make it clear that the two airspaces touch each other, with no space between. |
#26
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Class B airspace notation
Mxsmanic wrote in
: Airbus writes: Trying to read between the lines of this incredibly weird post, it would appear the writer is suffering from the illusion that "fractional" airspace altitudes in a given segment are indicated both for the charted (Class B) airspace and for the underlying (Class E). Readers should be advised of the fact that this expert, offering his "presumptions" may never have seen a sectional chart, and certainly has never studied the subject - does not know how to read the chart. Okay ... so explain why the charts include + and - for altitude limits on airspaces? Doesn't matter, you don't use airspace. Bertie |
#27
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Class B airspace notation
Mxsmanic wrote in
: Nomen Nescio writes: Because you're a dip**** Nope, that's not the reason. Yes, it is. Bertie |
#28
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Class B airspace notation
On Dec 17, 2:27 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
writes: What is the practical difference between "above, but not including" (e.g., +12) and "above and including" (e.g., 12)? I think it serves when you have two airspaces with no margin between them. For exampple, one is 12/SFC, the other is 70/12+. So at 1200 feet you're in one airspace, and at 1201 feet, you're in the other. If they were specified as 11/SFC and 70/12, the space between 1101 feet and 1199 feet inclusive would be outside either airspace. You need to understand the vertical relationship between airspaces. Have a look at a sectional and think about it. Why would you choose to fly on the vertical limit between to airspsaces anyway? Cheers |
#29
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Class B airspace notation
"Airbus" wrote in message ... "Upward from above" is the term used on the TAC. In other words, (IIUC) it means you can operate at 1200 feet talkiing to nobody, while ATC runs a heavy jet 1 foot over your head at 1201, where CBAS begins . . . A bit more than a foot would be required. An altitude assigned by ATC cannot be lower than the MVA. |
#30
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Class B airspace notation
On Dec 17, 2:14 am, WingFlaps wrote:
On Dec 17, 2:27 pm, Mxsmanic wrote: writes: What is the practical difference between "above, but not including" (e.g., +12) and "above and including" (e.g., 12)? I think it serves when you have two airspaces with no margin between them. For exampple, one is 12/SFC, the other is 70/12+. So at 1200 feet you're in one airspace, and at 1201 feet, you're in the other. If they were specified as 11/SFC and 70/12, the space between 1101 feet and 1199 feet inclusive would be outside either airspace. You need to understand the vertical relationship between airspaces. Have a look at a sectional and think about it. Why would you choose to fly on the vertical limit between to airspsaces anyway? There are certainly reasons to want to fly at a +X altitude rather than 100' lower. For example, if you're under a low Class B shelf, you might want to be as high as possible as a precaution in case there's an engine failure; 100' higher might give you 1000' further to glide. But not every +X floor adjoins a designated X ceiling below. For instance, consider the +05, +08, +11, and +12 Class B segments around EWR on the NY TAC (see skyvector.com). What's the point of the + for those segment floors? A +11 lets you fly at 1100', as opposed to 1099' without the +. But letting you fly one foot higher is of no value, since that's much less than the accuracy with which you can control or even measure your altitude. So why do they bother having the + there? |
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