Registration Airplane or Motorglider

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:38:29 GMT, Russ Haggerty
wrote in ::

I am building and ready to register a Europa experimental. I have
both regular and glider wings. I am soliciting opinions as to any
problems or restrictions to flight if I register it as a motorglider.
I see advantages as to no medical requirements for glider license, and
also 10 flight requirement for license and a motor launch endorsement
from a CFIG.

Any opinions or comments welcome

Thanks........

Congratulations on your completion of a worthy project.

In addition to the benefit of self-certifying your medical condition
for operation of your Europa, registering it as a motorglider will
give you the right-of-way over all but balloons, aircraft in distress,
and perhaps aircraft towing or refueling other aircraft. I am unable
to think of a single negative aspect to choosing to register your
Europa as a glider.

I've crossposted to rec.aviation.soaring; readership of that newsgroup
may be able to provide additional insight into your decision.

What are other Europa builders doing?




http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....2.4.7&idno=14
§ 91.113 Right-of-way rules: Except water operations.
(a) Inapplicability. This section does not apply to the operation
of an aircraft on water.

(b) General. When weather conditions permit, regardless of whether
an operation is conducted under instrument flight rules or visual
flight rules, vigilance shall be maintained by each person
operating an aircraft so as to see and avoid other aircraft. When
a rule of this section gives another aircraft the right-of-way,
the pilot shall give way to that aircraft and may not pass over,
under, or ahead of it unless well clear.

(c) In distress. An aircraft in distress has the right-of-way over
all other air traffic.

(d) Converging. When aircraft of the same category are converging
at approximately the same altitude (except head-on, or nearly so),
the aircraft to the other's right has the right-of-way. If the
aircraft are of different categories—

(1) A balloon has the right-of-way over any other category of
aircraft;

(2) A glider has the right-of-way over an airship, powered
parachute, weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane, or rotorcraft.

(3) An airship has the right-of-way over a powered parachute,
weight-shift-control aircraft, airplane, or rotorcraft.

However, an aircraft towing or refueling other aircraft has the
right-of-way over all other engine-driven aircraft.

...

One reason to register as a glider is that it may be more valuable on sale,
because of the medical issue. Right now, a pilot who has been denied a
medical may not be licensed under the new sport-pilot rules, but can fly a
glider/motorglider so long as he can certify himself.

One caution is that once certified as an aircraft, it may be difficult to
recertify it as a glider. So, if you think you may ever want it certified
as a glider, then do it with the original certification.

Colin N12HS


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In article . net,
COLIN LAMB wrote:
One reason to register as a glider is that it may be more valuable on sale,
because of the medical issue. Right now, a pilot who has been denied a
medical may not be licensed under the new sport-pilot rules, but can fly a
glider/motorglider so long as he can certify himself.

The Europa Vne is so high it would not qualify as a glider under
sport pilot. If the max cruise is low enough, it may qualify as
a Light Sport Airplane, however, with all the advantages of
minimal maint. certification and no medical...

Anyone know the Europa max cruise speed in level flight?
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

Doesn't need to. It would be certified as a glider, experimental, amateur
built.
There is no category for motorglider. It would not be subject to weight,
speed
limitations, other than what you put down on the certification papers when
you
get it certified. Builder's choice.

Mark James Boyd wrote in message 41964365$1@darkstar...
In article . net,
COLIN LAMB wrote:
One reason to register as a glider is that it may be more valuable on
sale,
because of the medical issue. Right now, a pilot who has been denied a
medical may not be licensed under the new sport-pilot rules, but can fly a
glider/motorglider so long as he can certify himself.

The Europa Vne is so high it would not qualify as a glider under
sport pilot. If the max cruise is low enough, it may qualify as
a Light Sport Airplane, however, with all the advantages of
minimal maint. certification and no medical...

Anyone know the Europa max cruise speed in level flight?
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

Well, one of the points was that certification as a glider means no
medical. My point was that certification as an Airplane-LSA
also means no medical.

Additionally, if it is an LSA (either as an LSA glider or as
an LSA airplane) a repairman with 16 hours of training can do the
yearly condition inspection. If it is just glider-experimental-amateur
built then an A&P or the builder must do the condition inspection.

I own an airplane-experimental which qualifies as an LSA.
Because of this, I and my partners have looked very
closely at the LSA repairman rules and are very interested
in taking the LSA inspection course.

If you own a glider which may qualify as an LSA, I suggest you look
carefully at these regulations and the possibilities they afford.

The SGS 2-33, SZD 50-3, SGS 1-34, SGS 1-26, Std Libelle,
Open Cirrus, ASW-15, H301, etc. seem to all qualify.
Vne 120kts or less, under 1320lbs meets the requirements.
The Vne seems to be the discriminator.

I'm still surprised why the PW-5, Apis, and Sparrowhawk are
121 or 123 Knots Vne. One would have thought the designers
would jigger something enough to reduce the Vne to 120 to
meet this rule. I've had enough contact with these
and other manufacturers to notice that the potential marketing
benefits of Sport Pilot and LSA are only partially understood...

In article ,
wrote:
Doesn't need to. It would be certified as a glider, experimental, amateur
built.
There is no category for motorglider. It would not be subject to weight,
speed
limitations, other than what you put down on the certification papers when
you
get it certified. Builder's choice.

Mark James Boyd wrote in message 41964365$1@darkstar...
In article . net,
COLIN LAMB wrote:
One reason to register as a glider is that it may be more valuable on
sale,
because of the medical issue. Right now, a pilot who has been denied a
medical may not be licensed under the new sport-pilot rules, but can fly a
glider/motorglider so long as he can certify himself.

The Europa Vne is so high it would not qualify as a glider under
sport pilot. If the max cruise is low enough, it may qualify as
a Light Sport Airplane, however, with all the advantages of
minimal maint. certification and no medical...

Anyone know the Europa max cruise speed in level flight?
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd




--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

I'm still surprised why the PW-5, Apis, and Sparrowhawk are 121 or 123 Knots
Vne. One would have thought the designers would jigger something enough to
reduce the Vne to 120 to meet this rule. I've had enough contact with these
and other manufacturers to notice that the potential marketing benefits of
Sport Pilot and LSA are only partially understood...


There is one little thing that I never heard anyone mention until OSH '04 and
that is, foreign made aircraft must come from a country that has a bi-lateral
airworthiness agreement with the USA. Had this requirement been more widely
known foreign manufactures might have had the time to get their governments to
conclude a bi-lateral agreement. I think those without are now working on this.


The LSA regulations were written mostly for the power plane crowd, it really
seems that glider stuff was stuck on almost as an after thought. I have yet to
read a good critique of why one would prefer the LSA glider over the non LSA
glider. Training minimums don't mean much because no CFI in their right mind
will sign you off until you are safe no matter what the minimum requirements
are. There are fewer restrictions, both in the capabilities of the glider and
the medical requirements with the non LSA route.

I think the potential benefits of LSA are understood. For the gliding community
I don't think they are very large. Mark, what do you see them as?

The real problem may be that we dealers and the soaring community as a whole
are not getting the word out to the LSA crowd that there is an alternative.
This lack of awareness is in part due to the fact that, here in the USA, other
than Soaring magazine, there are very few articles written in the popular
aviation press about soaring. The aviation periodicals market is deeply
segmented. One segment usually has no idea what the other segment is doing.

The German magazine Aerokurier prints articles on gliding every month, plus
skydiving and helicopters etc. I think that until recently there was no
national magazine dedicated to soaring.
In England, the fine magazine Today's Pilot always has gliding articles despite
its main focus on power flying. I can think of no U.S. based magazine that does
that.

As a sport we are not getting the word out.

Robert Mudd

Only the fixed gear ones. The rest would have to be fitted with floats.

The SGS 2-33, SZD 50-3, SGS 1-34, SGS 1-26, Std Libelle,
Open Cirrus, ASW-15, H301, etc. seem to all qualify.
Vne 120kts or less, under 1320lbs meets the requirements.
The Vne seems to be the discriminator.

"Well, one of the points was that certification as a glider means no
medical. My point was that certification as an Airplane-LSA
also means no medical."

As of this date, that is misleading. If you have been denied a medical by
the FAA, you cannot be certified under the LSA rules. This is a gaping hole
in the present rules that may be changed someday.

So, if you are a pilot with a medical and your medical was revoked, you are
limited to flying a glider and cannot fly an LSA - unless you go back to the
FAA and get a waiver or get your medical back. This is a case of the FAA
being worried about getting sued. It also means that if something happens
that causes you to believe that you will not get your medical, do not take a
FAA flight exam and do not tell the FAA. Let it lapse and then you can get
a LSA.

Colin N12HS





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One caution is that once certified as an aircraft, it may be difficult to
recertify it as a glider. So, if you think you may ever want it certified
as a glider, then do it with the original certification.

Colin N12HS

An Airplane and a Glider are both AIRCRAFT... so how do you intend to
certify it?

I think you meant to say, Airplane,, not Aircraft.. and yes.. once certified
one way, it is difficult to change...

BT

Larry Dighera wrote:

I am unable
to think of a single negative aspect to choosing to register your
Europa as a glider.

The vast majority of pilots have an airplane license and NOT
a glider license (in the USA). They will not be able to get insurance
without at least a glider solo endorsement and a self-launch
endorsement. There are at least 100 ASEL CFIs to every self-launch
capable CFIG, so finding an instructor is difficult even
if you provide the Europa for training for free prior to purchase.

So if you decide to get a partner or sell the aircraft, you will either
have a smaller pool of potential interested pilots, or will have
to convince interested parties to take glider training.

Whether this negative is overriden by other positives is something
you'll have to consider...

I wish the USA would instantly grant glider privs. to every
airplane pilot. Then the only thing stopping a pilot from
flying a glider would be the need for a launch endorsement.
I've never met an ASEL pilot who couldn't safely fly a glider
in all the other areas by the time he had learned to safely aerotow...
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd