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#41
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jls wrote: "G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message ... jls wrote: I have never seen a judgment awarded to an injured plaintiff when there wasn't some proof of negligence or defective design proximately causing the injury. You haven't been paying attention to the Parker-Hanefin case, I take it? George Patterson None of us is as dumb as all of us. If I were going to merchandise a mechanical gyro, George, I'd use 2004 technology, not ancient stuff from out of the 50's. What gyros? Gyros didn't figure in this case. George Patterson None of us is as dumb as all of us. |
#42
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"Bryan Martin" wrote in message ... Parker-Hannifin didn't make the gyro that failed in this case. As far as I know Parker-Hannifin doesn't make any gyros. Parker-Hannifin made the vacuum pumps that run the gyros and the pumps didn't fail. Before you run down someone else, get your own damn facts strait. Typical of a lawyer, twist the fact to suit your own argument and re-define terms until they are unrecognizable to anyone else. That explains Congress...both sides of the aisle and both houses. |
#43
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"Bryan Martin" wrote in message ... in article , jls at wrote on 6/26/04 11:14 PM: "Bryan Martin" wrote in message ... in article , jls at wrote on 6/25/04 9:34 PM: I have never seen a judgment awarded to an injured plaintiff when there wasn't some proof of negligence or defective design proximately causing the injury. You need to get your nose out of those law books and take a look at the real world, you're living in a fantasy world. Ah, my partisan friend, you need to furnish evidence it -- a case going to the jury without evidence of negligence -- has happened, otherwise be thought of as shooting from the hip with a $2 pistol. I haven't read much law since taking the bar in the 70's, haven't needed to all that much, but I've learned people's "facts" often lack substance and substantiation, and will twist the facts to suit their purpose. It's always good then to consider what one has at stake when one takes a position, and you rarely if ever have a pilot or CFI or aircraft owner or engineer or owner of an FBO taking the side of a plaintiff like the Carnahan widow. In the Carnahan case there was indeed testimony that the Parker-Hannifin gyro failed, that P-H gyros had performance problems on other occasions in other aircraft, and therefore P-H had notice of a defect or defects needing to be cured. At any rate P-H settled, constituting an admission of liability. The other character in this thread saying there was no such evidence is hanging his hat on AOPA's take of the evidence. You could hardly say THEY are objective at AOPA in these controversies ---- about as objective as Michael Moore is about George Bush. I just read another whiner complaining that the jury disregarded the NTSB report in the Carnahan case, but he is naive because ordinarily those reports, just like a highway patrolman's report of an auto accident, are and always have been inadmissible as evidence before a jury. I'd be willing the bet the jury never saw the NTSB report, so that guy is writing something deceptive, something to mislead the reader, in order to justify his position against the lawsuit. Then you hear, Oh, we're going to be priced out of the sky by these lawsuits. They're so frivolous, and so costly and we'll never be able to buy another gyro ever again, and oh the sky is falling and oh these trial lawyers are ruining the world, sucking the very lifeblood out of general aviation. Well buuuullll ****. The widow Carnahan was looking for 100 million and she got 4. Big deal. Parker-Hannifin didn't make the gyro that failed in this case. As far as I know Parker-Hannifin doesn't make any gyros. Parker-Hannifin made the vacuum pumps that run the gyros and the pumps didn't fail. Before you run down someone else, get your own damn facts strait. Typical of a lawyer, twist the fact to suit your own argument and re-define terms until they are unrecognizable to anyone else. Apparently YOU haven't been confused, except as to the spelling of the word "straight." Don't be nitpicking now or I'll have to nitpick back at you. If I twisted the facts I didn't do it intentionally. Read this and the accompanying material. I'm speaking of the gyros as the vacuum system, and you will note that the article implicates gyroscope obsolescence: http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/Publi...ahancrash.html The point is that the jury found that the vacuum system failed or was inadequate for its designed purpose and if there is anyone who can accurately say there was no negligence by P-H, utterly no testimony of it, he should provide proof thereof, not the speculation which has characterized this sub-thread. Now please note that the NTSB found that the primary attitude indicator was probably not functioning properly at the time of the crash. Here, read for yourself: "The NTSB accident report indicated there may indeed have been problems with the primary attitude display, but said that secondary instruments were probably functioning at the time of the crash." The judge let the case against P-H go to the jury which awarded 4 million. If you don't like him, impeach him. P-H withdrew their appeal and settled, then settled with another estate not a party to the Carnahan lawsuit. [This should answer Nauga's nattering too.] |
#44
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"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message ... jls wrote: "G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message ... jls wrote: I have never seen a judgment awarded to an injured plaintiff when there wasn't some proof of negligence or defective design proximately causing the injury. You haven't been paying attention to the Parker-Hanefin case, I take it? George Patterson None of us is as dumb as all of us. If I were going to merchandise a mechanical gyro, George, I'd use 2004 technology, not ancient stuff from out of the 50's. What gyros? Gyros didn't figure in this case. George Patterson None of us is as dumb as all of us. Fair enough on this vaguely relevant point and on the irrelevant point that the jury verdict was reduced but read the material I provided for Bryan in another post. I don't claim to be intimately familiar with the facts or law of the Carnahan lawsuit, just made the so far irrefutable (and unrefuted) point that a lawsuit doesn't get sent to the jury by a judge who has not heard and made a note during the lawsuit of credible testimony and evidence of negligence. |
#45
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Bryan Martin wrote:
Parker-Hannifin didn't make the gyro that failed in this case. As far as I know Parker-Hannifin doesn't make any gyros. Parker-Hannifin made the vacuum pumps that run the gyros and the pumps didn't fail. Before you run down someone else, get your own damn facts strait. Typical of a lawyer, twist the fact to suit your own argument and re-define terms until they are unrecognizable to anyone else. And rely on the objectivity of twelve morons who couldn't find a flimsy excuse to get out of jury duty.... |
#46
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jls wrote...
I'm speaking of the gyros as the vacuum system, and you will note that the article implicates gyroscope obsolescence: But the suit was against the vacuum pump manufacturer, not the gyro manufacturer. The NTSB concluded that a single attitude gyro failed, and that the vacuum system was functional. Here, read for yourself: "The NTSB accident report indicated there may indeed have been problems with the primary attitude display, but said that secondary instruments were probably functioning at the time of the crash." Right back atcha: "...one of the vacuum gage system failure indicator buttons exhibited evidence of having been in almost the fully retracted position (the other indicator button was found in the partially retracted position), which indicates that adequate vacuum existed for the airplane's instruments to operate." Dave 'forensic engineering' Hyde |
#47
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snip
I realize the above won't silence the anal retentive critics, but even Christ was noted for producing wine for a festive occasion and then having the gall to advertise it in the Bible. Of course, if he were alive today... Critics would use the legal system to crucify him for it. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Unka' BOb - Just say no to party pooper pool putzes AMEN! |
#48
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Don't you folks know that anything that is more than a couple of lines unsnipped gets bypassed? Why in the hell can't you snip? Jim Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup) VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor http://www.rst-engr.com |
#49
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Peach? You gonna bring PEACH? I was going to bring apricot. Let's see who can
stand the longest with a swap between us. Jim {;-) -I will have Peach Muzzleloader at Oshkosh again this year for those adults who -are not flying ,walking,standing ,speaking or in any way engaged in any activity Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup) VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor http://www.rst-engr.com |
#50
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jls wrote: I don't claim to be intimately familiar with the facts or law of the Carnahan lawsuit, just made the so far irrefutable (and unrefuted) point that a lawsuit doesn't get sent to the jury by a judge who has not heard and made a note during the lawsuit of credible testimony and evidence of negligence. Must be nice to live in a world in which judges are infallible and never allow friendship or ignorance to affect their decisions. George Patterson None of us is as dumb as all of us. |
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