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#31
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Two die in Glider mid-air
John F,
I understand your cloud street advice, but don't understand "G and R tasks". Would you please elaborate? In the case I was describing, I was in a house thermal 3 miles from my home field, gaining altitude prepatory to starting a TAT. We get fairly frequent turboprop commuter aircraft running between 4000 to 6000 feet from NW to SE (and vice versa) close to that area (they're the ones I described as changing course to avoid us gliders), but no one could recall ever seeing a jet airliner that low going from SW to NE. It was a strange situation, made worse by him apparently not detecting me via TCAS or knowing of me via ATC - and of course, me not seeing him until he was way too close! -John On Sep 10, 9:33 am, John Firth wrote: Ann Welch, a many time steward at WGC s , always warned against setting G and R tasks due to the risk of collision; one nearly got me; about 3 secs warning. If you are running a cloud street, use the L/R lift indications to turn slightly; no longer will you be a "stationary" speck to the other pilot and the wing movment will make you easier to see. A climbing turn is even better. John F |
#32
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Two die in Glider mid-air
As a european and as a first hand experience from a mid air by the
FLARM system. It amazes me how still people can stick their head in the sand and say Look-out is the only thing you need! You need lookout supported by FLARM, supported by FLARM RADAR, supported by TRANSPONDER for the big heavy metal, supported by COLLISION MARKINGS on your plane.. and even then sometimes you find a plane passing you below that you haven't spotted with your eyes first. I was alerted by flarm in a thermal of another glider that flew in front of me. he was hidden below my cockpit edge and out of my field of vision. I was able to dive below him with 8 meters to spare !! FLARM WORKS, Adopt it. If you start using it you will see your look- out is poor sometimes.... Zen On 9 sep, 17:14, Darryl Ramm wrote: jcarlyle wrote: Transponders are not a magic shield. I fly with a Mode S transponder in the busy Philadelphia / New York airspace. I often see airliners diverting course to go around me (particularly commuters), but then there was the Southwest 737 that flew 300 feet directly over me. I was thermalling at 5700, he was straight and level at 6000. Gliders in this area have a discrete transponder code, and we know from conversations with ATC that they're keeping track of us specifically as glider traffic. So, I know for certain that (1) the Southwest pilot was aware of me (long before I was aware of him), and (2) he was also aware that I was a glider. I'm not standing on principle here, if I'd seen him sooner I would have quit thermalling and flown 90 degrees to his track while losing altitude (quickly). But it was a hazy day, I was thermalling, he was doing 250 kts, and I just flat didn't see him until he was about a mile away. Moral - keep a good lookout, amd remember that stuff can happen in spite of a transponder... -John Something is a little strange here as this seems well within the altitude difference window that should have generated an RA. Which is a big deal to the 737 crew both from the immediate required response to the RA and subsequent reporting/paperwork. Darryl- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven - - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven - |
#33
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Two die in Glider mid-air
Bart,
Collision markings and transponder exist. Flarm has been on order for a year, and is not yet available. I'm hoping (a) I get the Flarm and (b) they implement ADS-B display _before_ I have another aerial encounter. -John On Sep 11, 4:59 am, bart s wrote: As a european and as a first hand experience from a mid air by the FLARM system. It amazes me how still people can stick their head in the sand and say Look-out is the only thing you need! You need lookout supported by FLARM, supported by FLARM RADAR, supported by TRANSPONDER for the big heavy metal, supported by COLLISION MARKINGS on your plane.. and even then sometimes you find a plane passing you below that you haven't spotted with your eyes first. I was alerted by flarm in a thermal of another glider that flew in front of me. he was hidden below my cockpit edge and out of my field of vision. I was able to dive below him with 8 meters to spare !! FLARM WORKS, Adopt it. If you start using it you will see your look- out is poor sometimes.... Zen |
#34
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Two die in Glider mid-air
PowerFLARM does display 1090ES traffic now. It does not yet alert/warn
on 1090ES traffic threats. ADS-B especially with the screwed up dual-link layer system being rolled out in the USA is a much larger topic. Including how many threats out there today are actually 1090ES data-out equipped. ADS-B data-out carriage for full participation, Ground station coverage, ADS-B TIS-B and ADS-R support etc. PowerFLARM portable units are about to roll out in the USA in greater numbers - Urs updated here on that recently with info on the antenna problems. I think we have pretty good interest in PowerFLARM adoption in the USA soaring community now. We could have been a lot further along and have fewer dead pilots had we all, including the SSA, worked to more actively encourage FLARM to enter the USA market years ago. Darryl jcarlyle wrote: Bart, Collision markings and transponder exist. Flarm has been on order for a year, and is not yet available. I'm hoping (a) I get the Flarm and (b) they implement ADS-B display _before_ I have another aerial encounter. -John On Sep 11, 4:59 am, bart s wrote: As a european and as a first hand experience from a mid air by the FLARM system. It amazes me how still people can stick their head in the sand and say Look-out is the only thing you need! You need lookout supported by FLARM, supported by FLARM RADAR, supported by TRANSPONDER for the big heavy metal, supported by COLLISION MARKINGS on your plane.. and even then sometimes you find a plane passing you below that you haven't spotted with your eyes first. I was alerted by flarm in a thermal of another glider that flew in front of me. he was hidden below my cockpit edge and out of my field of vision. I was able to dive below him with 8 meters to spare !! FLARM WORKS, Adopt it. If you start using it you will see your look- out is poor sometimes.... Zen |
#35
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Two die in Glider mid-air
On Sep 11, 9:41*am, Darryl Ramm wrote:
I think we have pretty good interest in PowerFLARM adoption in the USA soaring community now. We could have been a lot further along and have fewer dead pilots had we all, including the SSA, worked to more actively encourage FLARM to enter the USA market years ago. Be aware, I'm in a curmudgeonly mood today: Perhaps 4 or 5 pilots have died in the past decade in the US in glider/ glider or glider/towplane accidents. During that same period, I suspect 50 or 60 pilots have died from more mundane issues, like collision with terrain, stall/spin, failure to connect the elevator, etc. As anyone who has been around the US soaring scene for a while knows, when Joe Glider Pilot hits the rocks, fails to notice that the spoilers are open on takeoff, or spins in the pattern, it was because he was inadequately trained or should never have been a pilot in the first place. When Famous Racing Pilot runs into another glider, or crashes in trees and can't be found for 24 hours or so, however, it is obviously an issue that requires an immediate technical solution. While I encourage people to equip themselves with PowerFLARM, ELTs, or anything else they think helps, I will suggest that we have a very odd attitude towards safety here in the US. It's far too difficult to do some things, like examining whether changes to the tow signals are appropriate, making sure tow planes have working radios, or encouraging CDs not to set tasks which result in gliders encountering each other head-on at cruise speed. But, if there is a fancy safety gadget to be bought, we all need to be with the program. That is the American way. Speaking as a pilot who has (hopefully, temporarily) grounded himself due to concerns that real life has become too much of a distraction from flying safely, Marc |
#36
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Two die in Glider mid-air
Marc
As you know I am in a curmudgeonly mood all the time. I am all for addressing the other issues. They are areas I worry about personally. I use written checklists, deliberately purchased gliders with auto control hookup, I like to do BFRs and spring checkouts with different instructors. I have a VHF radio that works well and I use it. I choose where I fly and will not fly at some locations that are just don't have a strong safety culture. Being a technology geek I am going to speak up on the technology stuff and hope that experienced instructors etc lead on the other stuff--nice to see UH and Tom's posts recently. And at a completely callous level if those other folks go kill themselves elsewhere and not run into me in a thermal etc. at least I am alive. Hopefully there is not too self denial of my own other safety risks going on here. Too many times have I been surprised by other gliders and GA aircraft and that is when trying to keep a good lookout. Given that I am actually surprised we have as few mid-air fatalities as we do. And statistics be damned, after losing friends in midairs that PowerFLARM could likely have helped avoid (and yes so could radio use etc.) its very difficult not to think that these are pretty cost effective and justifiable. Of course Flarm is not a replacement for the eyeball or an excuse to not think about things like safe task setting etc. Darryl Marc wrote: On Sep 11, 9:41 am, Darryl Ramm wrote: I think we have pretty good interest in PowerFLARM adoption in the USA soaring community now. We could have been a lot further along and have fewer dead pilots had we all, including the SSA, worked to more actively encourage FLARM to enter the USA market years ago. Be aware, I'm in a curmudgeonly mood today: Perhaps 4 or 5 pilots have died in the past decade in the US in glider/ glider or glider/towplane accidents. During that same period, I suspect 50 or 60 pilots have died from more mundane issues, like collision with terrain, stall/spin, failure to connect the elevator, etc. As anyone who has been around the US soaring scene for a while knows, when Joe Glider Pilot hits the rocks, fails to notice that the spoilers are open on takeoff, or spins in the pattern, it was because he was inadequately trained or should never have been a pilot in the first place. When Famous Racing Pilot runs into another glider, or crashes in trees and can't be found for 24 hours or so, however, it is obviously an issue that requires an immediate technical solution. While I encourage people to equip themselves with PowerFLARM, ELTs, or anything else they think helps, I will suggest that we have a very odd attitude towards safety here in the US. It's far too difficult to do some things, like examining whether changes to the tow signals are appropriate, making sure tow planes have working radios, or encouraging CDs not to set tasks which result in gliders encountering each other head-on at cruise speed. But, if there is a fancy safety gadget to be bought, we all need to be with the program. That is the American way. Speaking as a pilot who has (hopefully, temporarily) grounded himself due to concerns that real life has become too much of a distraction from flying safely, Marc |
#37
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[quote=jcarlyle;782917]John F,
I understand your cloud street advice, but don't understand "G and R tasks". Would you please elaborate? I would think 'Goal and Return' aka Out and Return Colin |
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