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#1
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Glider cross-country time toward commercial SEL requrements?
I'm trying to determine if any of my glider cross-country time can be
applied to the commercial single engine aeronautical experience requirements. FAR 61.129 says "50 hours of cross-country flight of which at least 10 hours must be in airplanes". FAR 61.1 defines cross country time as, among other things, flight with landing beyond 50 nautical miles of departure and "conducted in an appropriate aircraft". I've talked to a local examiner, FSDO, and Oklahoma City. All are saying, "Hmmm, good question! Let me get back to you". Anyone with experience with this question care to weigh in? Thanks, Matt Michael CFIG Woodstock N20609 "Wanders Wonder" IS-28B2 Lark N28DG |
#2
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A "glider" is not defined as an "airplane", as per the FAR's.
Nice try though. Blake Oliver 44 Matt Michael wrote: I'm trying to determine if any of my glider cross-country time can be applied to the commercial single engine aeronautical experience requirements. FAR 61.129 says "50 hours of cross-country flight of which at least 10 hours must be in airplanes". FAR 61.1 defines cross country time as, among other things, flight with landing beyond 50 nautical miles of departure and "conducted in an appropriate aircraft". I've talked to a local examiner, FSDO, and Oklahoma City. All are saying, "Hmmm, good question! Let me get back to you". Anyone with experience with this question care to weigh in? Thanks, Matt Michael CFIG Woodstock N20609 "Wanders Wonder" IS-28B2 Lark N28DG |
#3
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Blake Oliver wrote:
A "glider" is not defined as an "airplane", as per the FAR's. And this affects the following how? FAR 61.129 says "50 hours of cross-country flight of which at least 10 hours must be in airplanes". So, 40 hours could be in a sailplane, or in a gyro-copter for that matter. FAR 61.1 defines cross country time as, among other things, flight with landing beyond 50 nautical miles of departure and "conducted in an appropriate aircraft". The only question is whether or not the FAA interpretation which finally comes down will accept the sailplane as "an _appropriate_ aircraft". IMO, 50+ mile x-c in a sailplane is a more significant (and demanding) x-c flight than it would be in C-150. Jack |
#4
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Matt Michael wrote:
FAR 61.129 says "50 hours of cross-country flight of which at least 10 hours must be in airplanes". Blake Oliver wrote: A "glider" is not defined as an "airplane", as per the FAR's. Nice try though. Please note that only 10 of the 50 hours must be in an "airplane", the other 40 must be in an "aircraft". Those 40 hours could be in a "glider". However, one must land at least 50 nm away from the point of departure in order for a flight to count as "cross-country. So, if one has 40 hours worth of cross-country flights where you land at least 50 nm away from home, you'll only need 10 hours of "airplane" cross-country time to meet the requirements. For example, I have about 750 hours of cross-country flight time in gliders (most well over 200 miles), but nearly all ended up back at home, or less than 25 miles away. So I only have 20 hours or so of glider cross-country time from the FAA's perspective. Marc |
#5
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"Blake Oliver" wrote in message news:hORod.383895$wV.186005@attbi_s54... A "glider" is not defined as an "airplane", as per the FAR's. Nice try though. Huh? 1) 61.129 (a) (ii) states that 10 of the 50 hours must be in airplanes, which clearly implies that the other 40 may be done in some other type of aircraft other than an "airplane". 2) 61.1 (b) (3) "Cross-country time means-" makes no mention of the word "airplane". Did I miss something? I don't see how there could possibly be any question that glider cross-country time would apply towards the Commercial SEl rating as long as it otherwise meets the definition (50-mile straight-line distance, pilotage etc.). Vaughn |
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#7
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"Vaughn" wrote in message ...
"Blake Oliver" wrote in message news:hORod.383895$wV.186005@attbi_s54... A "glider" is not defined as an "airplane", as per the FAR's. Nice try though. Huh? 1) 61.129 (a) (ii) states that 10 of the 50 hours must be in airplanes, which clearly implies that the other 40 may be done in some other type of aircraft other than an "airplane". 2) 61.1 (b) (3) "Cross-country time means-" makes no mention of the word "airplane". Did I miss something? I don't see how there could possibly be any question that glider cross-country time would apply towards the Commercial SEl rating as long as it otherwise meets the definition (50-mile straight-line distance, pilotage etc.). Vaughn The term "appropriate aircraft" in 61.1 does leave room for interpretation. Appropriate to the catagory and class of the rating sought? Appropriate perhaps meaning with an N number? One examiner I asked said he didn't know but that if I showed up with 40 hours of balloon cross country he'd tell me to take a hike. I don't want to show up for a checkride and find out I need 40 more hours with that infernal contraption screaming away up front. MM |
#8
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Matt Michael wrote:
One examiner I asked said he didn't know but that if I showed up with 40 hours of balloon cross country he'd tell me to take a hike. But is a balloon an aircraft at all? In German, at least, balloons don't even "fly"! Stefan |
#9
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(Regrets if this gets posted twice. The first time,
it seemed to disappear into bit-space.) I don't know the answer to the original question, but I'm interestd to learn the answer(s). Interesting the FAA requires a flight of 50nm and a landing away from the originating field to be considered 'XC.' In a glider, if you get more than one thermal away from home field, you're 'XC.' While I do want to know the answer, I wonder why the original poster of this thread would want to 'cut short' his 'training' time. Yes, he will save money on flying before he gets his rating, but he's going to spend the money anyway after he gets his rating, so overall, I don't see a money savings. It's odd that we do all we can do to fly as many hours as we can, gaining experience, having fun, and seeing new sights with each additional moment in the air. Then, we look for ways to make our flying time shorter. I read about and hear about pilots complaining about diversions dictated by Air Traffic Control and I wonder why the complaint. Yes, I know it's more money, but heck, we're going to have to pay to fly anyway. On one VFR flight in a Cezzna 150, the controller vectored me around the Class C airport I was approaching to land due to traffic. He apologized for the diversion, but I thought it was great. I flew over land I hadn't been over and got some addtional flying time. Didn't bother me a bit. Yep, some of us want to build time and some of us complain when we have to fly more than we think we should. What does it take to make us happy? (I'll settle for a 0.5 knot thermal about right now :-) ) Ray Lovinggood Carrboro, North Carolina, USA (Facing a long winter, and no wise cracks from the Northern Plains crowd about the 'long' North Carolina winters...) At 06:30 24 November 2004, Tom Seim wrote: (Matt Michael) wrote in message news:... I'm trying to determine if any of my glider cross-country time can be applied to the commercial single engine aeronautical experience requirements. FAR 61.129 says '50 hours of cross-country flight of which at least 10 hours must be in airplanes'. FAR 61.1 defines cross country time as, among other things, flight with landing beyond 50 nautical miles of departure and 'conducted in an appropriate aircraft'. I've talked to a local examiner, FSDO, and Oklahoma City. All are saying, 'Hmmm, good question! Let me get back to you'. Anyone with experience with this question care to weigh in? Thanks, Matt Michael CFIG Woodstock N20609 'Wanders Wonder' IS-28B2 Lark N28DG I have done exactly this. The bottom line is that you CAN use your glider XC time, IF you land more than 50 NM from departure. This saved me about one half of the flight time. Nowadays, that is 25 times $70 per hour = $1,750. Tom |
#10
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If it does not specifically specify an airplane, Helicoptor, Glider,
etc. Then any aircraft will work for the requirement. So, From the FARs you show below, you can apply 40 hours of glider cross country to your Commecial SEL Rating. However you must land at least 50 miles from your original point of departure for it to count as a cross country. I know a few glider pilots that have done this. I have also transitioned a few Helicopter pilots into airplanes that have done this as well. I have spent a fair amount of time conversing with Alan Pinkston of AFS-600 and the Author the Part 61 FAQ. He also in the past has the done the training for the examiners, and many examiners have met or been trained in person by him. I have had to show some of his responses to my inquires to a few examiners to prove various interpretations of the rules. One of my more difficult questions for him was How do I log glider x-country flights where I do not land 50 miles away? The official answer came back as you may log it as Cross Country time, however it can not be used as time towards a rating. Since the only rating that allows you to log x-country time where you do not land 50 nm away from your departure point is the ATP rating, and it specifies that it must be done in an airplane. Brian Case CFIIG/ASEL (Matt Michael) wrote in message . com... I'm trying to determine if any of my glider cross-country time can be applied to the commercial single engine aeronautical experience requirements. FAR 61.129 says "50 hours of cross-country flight of which at least 10 hours must be in airplanes". FAR 61.1 defines cross country time as, among other things, flight with landing beyond 50 nautical miles of departure and "conducted in an appropriate aircraft". I've talked to a local examiner, FSDO, and Oklahoma City. All are saying, "Hmmm, good question! Let me get back to you". Anyone with experience with this question care to weigh in? Thanks, Matt Michael CFIG Woodstock N20609 "Wanders Wonder" IS-28B2 Lark N28DG |
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