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Cross-Country Definition (USA)



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 5th 04, 05:11 PM
Michael Stringfellow
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Default Cross-Country Definition (USA)

In filling out my FAA form for my USA pilot's certificate, I note that they
have spaces for not only total hours and number of flights but also
cross-country flight time. The only problem is that the Federal Aviation
Regulations (FARs) do not appear to define cross-country flying as it
applies to gliders. Local FAA gurus were unable to offer any other
definition than the one applicable to airplanes, which requires a landing at
a remote airfield.

Can any other US pilots throw light on this?

It might also be interesting to hear from Europeans what their official
definitions are.

Mike

ASW 20 WA


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  #2  
Old February 5th 04, 10:18 PM
JC
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Default

"Michael Stringfellow" wrote:

In filling out my FAA form for my USA pilot's certificate, I note that they
have spaces for not only total hours and number of flights but also
cross-country flight time. The only problem is that the Federal Aviation
Regulations (FARs) do not appear to define cross-country flying as it
applies to gliders. Local FAA gurus were unable to offer any other
definition than the one applicable to airplanes, which requires a landing at
a remote airfield.

Can any other US pilots throw light on this?

It might also be interesting to hear from Europeans what their official
definitions are.

Mike

ASW 20 WA


Where I trained they said you were on a cross country whenever you
needed more altitude than you had to get back to your home field.
  #3  
Old February 5th 04, 10:46 PM
David Martin
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Not sure what the "official" designation is; however, I think a
generally accepted definition of cross country would be any flight
that takes you beyond gliding distance of the home field. This would
apply wether you return to the home field or not. My 2 cents worth.

David Martin
ASW27 BV
  #4  
Old February 5th 04, 11:45 PM
soarski
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Default

"Michael Stringfellow" wrote in message news:[email protected]
In filling out my FAA form for my USA pilot's certificate, I note that they
have spaces for not only total hours and number of flights but also
cross-country flight time. The only problem is that the Federal Aviation
Regulations (FARs) do not appear to define cross-country flying as it
applies to gliders. Local FAA gurus were unable to offer any other
definition than the one applicable to airplanes, which requires a landing at
a remote airfield.

Can any other US pilots throw light on this?

It might also be interesting to hear from Europeans what their official
definitions are.

Mike

ASW 20 WA


If you read the FARs, under aeronautical experience, for powered
flight, you will see some requirements for, I am looking it up for you
right now: 3 hrs of cros country flight training in a sgl engine
aircraft.;3 hrs of nightflight training in airplanes including one of
over 100 miles distance.....There they are spelling it out for you
Fly 100nm. Then they want 5 hrs solo X-Country, of wich one flight has
to be at least 150 mi long etc. The FAA did not always specify.....to
be done in an sgl engine airplane, 20 years ago you could count your
Glider X-Country towards your power license. If it was long enough!
Still, the FAA specifies the above and a couple of other hrs to be
flown in an airplane , which means, that about 25 hrs of glider time
can be applied towards the needed time of still only 40 hrs for the
private license airplane.

Read FAR 61.109 my book is the 2001 issue! Not sure whether I
answered your question. How does the FAA define X-Country different
between gliders and airplanes??

Dieter Bellanca Viking
  #5  
Old February 6th 04, 02:25 AM
BTIZ
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FAR 61.1(b)(3)(ii)(B), for the purpose of meeting aeronautical experience
requirements, "that includes a point of landing that was at least a
straight line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original
point of departure."

Another section of the FARs pt 61 tell you that a student pilot is "cross
country" if more than 25nm from his home airport, but that does not count as
x-c time, he just needs "special permission" to be more than 25nm away.

So, 50nm is the rule, you can log x-c if you take off and land 5nm away...
but you can't "count" it to meet a requirement towards additional ratings
unless the landing is more than 50nm away.. and that means a landing, can't
just circle the point (airport or flag pole) and return without landing. It
will not count for meeting rating qualification requirements.

BT

"soarski" wrote in message
om...
"Michael Stringfellow" wrote in message

news:[email protected]
In filling out my FAA form for my USA pilot's certificate, I note that

they
have spaces for not only total hours and number of flights but also
cross-country flight time. The only problem is that the Federal

Aviation
Regulations (FARs) do not appear to define cross-country flying as it
applies to gliders. Local FAA gurus were unable to offer any other
definition than the one applicable to airplanes, which requires a

landing at
a remote airfield.

Can any other US pilots throw light on this?

It might also be interesting to hear from Europeans what their official
definitions are.

Mike

ASW 20 WA


If you read the FARs, under aeronautical experience, for powered
flight, you will see some requirements for, I am looking it up for you
right now: 3 hrs of cros country flight training in a sgl engine
aircraft.;3 hrs of nightflight training in airplanes including one of
over 100 miles distance.....There they are spelling it out for you
Fly 100nm. Then they want 5 hrs solo X-Country, of wich one flight has
to be at least 150 mi long etc. The FAA did not always specify.....to
be done in an sgl engine airplane, 20 years ago you could count your
Glider X-Country towards your power license. If it was long enough!
Still, the FAA specifies the above and a couple of other hrs to be
flown in an airplane , which means, that about 25 hrs of glider time
can be applied towards the needed time of still only 40 hrs for the
private license airplane.

Read FAR 61.109 my book is the 2001 issue! Not sure whether I
answered your question. How does the FAA define X-Country different
between gliders and airplanes??

Dieter Bellanca Viking



  #6  
Old February 6th 04, 05:13 AM
Judy Ruprecht
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Default

At 02:30 06 February 2004, Btiz referenced:
FAR 61.1(b)(3)(ii)(B), for the purpose of meeting aeronautical
experience
requirements...


Uhm... the cited FAR paragraph actually refers to a
cross country definition in the context of 'experience
requirements' established for private, commercial or
instrument pilot certification in aircraft other than
rotorcraft... and there are no cross country requirements
established for any level of glider pilot certification.

The Part 61 FAQ is mute on this topic, but I believe
61.1(b)(3)(i) is the applicable paragraph and it defines
'Cross country time' as 'time acquired during a flight...

- conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate
- conducted in an aircraft
- that includes a landing at a point other than the
airport of departure; and
- that involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage,
electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation
systems to navigate to the landing point.'

Thus, FAR-wise, a land-out a few miles away from home
may involve 'cross country time' in a glider but a
successful closed course glider flight of several hundred
miles does not appear to be cross country flight time
at all!

Your insurance company probably has other ideas...

Judy


  #7  
Old February 6th 04, 05:20 AM
tango4
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Default

So by your definition you can do a 1000km triangle flight without going
cross country. Just so long as you land back at the take-off airfield.

Out of gliding range of the airfield is usually the common sense definition
of cross country. I'd qualify that with - If you have to navigate to get
home ( ie: read a map or GPS, negotiate airspace ).

Ian


  #8  
Old February 6th 04, 06:07 AM
BTIZ
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Default

So by your definition you can do a 1000km triangle flight without going
cross country. Just so long as you land back at the take-off airfield.


No... It's not my definition... it is the FAR...

Any student is X-C if more than 25nm from home. But he can't log that 25 or
20nm trip as X-C time towards his rating.. he needs to be at least 50nm and
LAND OUT.

for the "PURPOSE OF LOGGING REQUIRED CROSS COUNTRY TIME TOWARDS AN
ADDITIONAL RATING.

And to COUNT time for ADDITIONAL ratings as cross country.. you have to LAND
OUT.

YOU can LOG anything you want to.. a 5nm out and back as X-C if you so
desire. You just count it towards any X-C requirement for an additional
rating.

Luckily for gliders X-C time is not a requirement.. but it is for AIRPLANE,
and you'll find that the FAR also requires said LOGGED X-C time towards the
Airplane Pvt and Commercial Ratings to be LOGGED in an AIRPLANE. Not a
glider.

So... for COUNTING purposes, you need at least 50nm and a land out to count
it towards any requirement for additional ratings.

BTW, this is US FAR rules...

BT


  #9  
Old February 6th 04, 06:08 AM
BTIZ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

so true Judy...
BT

"Judy Ruprecht" wrote in message
...
At 02:30 06 February 2004, Btiz referenced:
FAR 61.1(b)(3)(ii)(B), for the purpose of meeting aeronautical
experience
requirements...


Uhm... the cited FAR paragraph actually refers to a
cross country definition in the context of 'experience
requirements' established for private, commercial or
instrument pilot certification in aircraft other than
rotorcraft... and there are no cross country requirements
established for any level of glider pilot certification.

The Part 61 FAQ is mute on this topic, but I believe
61.1(b)(3)(i) is the applicable paragraph and it defines
'Cross country time' as 'time acquired during a flight...

- conducted by a person who holds a pilot certificate
- conducted in an aircraft
- that includes a landing at a point other than the
airport of departure; and
- that involves the use of dead reckoning, pilotage,
electronic navigation aids, radio aids, or other navigation
systems to navigate to the landing point.'

Thus, FAR-wise, a land-out a few miles away from home
may involve 'cross country time' in a glider but a
successful closed course glider flight of several hundred
miles does not appear to be cross country flight time
at all!

Your insurance company probably has other ideas...

Judy




  #10  
Old February 6th 04, 12:18 PM
Dave Nadler YO
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Default

Easy - Start in LA, land at Kitty Hawk.
Count time enroute, excluding the driving ;-)
Best Regards from the SSA convention, Dave "YO"

"Michael Stringfellow" wrote in message news:[email protected]
In filling out my FAA form for my USA pilot's certificate, I note that they
have spaces for not only total hours and number of flights but also
cross-country flight time. The only problem is that the Federal Aviation
Regulations (FARs) do not appear to define cross-country flying as it
applies to gliders. Local FAA gurus were unable to offer any other
definition than the one applicable to airplanes, which requires a landing at
a remote airfield.

Can any other US pilots throw light on this?

It might also be interesting to hear from Europeans what their official
definitions are.

Mike

ASW 20 WA

 




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