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#21
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HpH 304CZ as first sailplane
Are you referring to the accuracy of the prediction or commenting on the
skills of the prospective cardiac surgeon? Ray Warshaw "Shawn" sdotherecurry@bresnannextdotnet wrote in message ... wrote: The army wisdom is (or at least used to be) "See one, do one, teach one". Interesting concept although it's important to consider the army's opinion on expendablility. My wife says her medical training was the same. Think about that when your doctor says lose weight and get more exercise or you'll be needing bypass surgery in 10 years! Shawn |
#22
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HpH 304CZ as first sailplane
Which would you worry more about?
Raphael Warshaw wrote: Are you referring to the accuracy of the prediction or commenting on the skills of the prospective cardiac surgeon? Ray Warshaw "Shawn" sdotherecurry@bresnannextdotnet wrote in message ... wrote: The army wisdom is (or at least used to be) "See one, do one, teach one". Interesting concept although it's important to consider the army's opinion on expendablility. My wife says her medical training was the same. Think about that when your doctor says lose weight and get more exercise or you'll be needing bypass surgery in 10 years! Shawn |
#23
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HpH 304CZ as first sailplane
Without a doubt, the surgeon. Predictions by wives are always too
gloomy. I'll bet having a physician wife makes it especially hard to think of snappy comebacks, though. Ray Warshaw |
#24
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HpH 304CZ as first sailplane
WOW! I never expected such a great response!.
I sincerely appreciate the thoughtful and thought provoking comments. You have all given me lots of food for thought. Obviously the issue of proper training and preparation is number one. In my mind this is a given. I posed the question because I have an oppportunity to purchase a 304CZ that is in my neighborhood and comes from a highly recommended source. I know that I may have to sit on it for a while until I get up to speed in the category, but after reading all the reponses it honestly doesn't seem like it's something that is "out of my league", again given the proper instruction. I will DEFINATELY do the dual cross country training that has been recommended. This is a great idea and something I had planned to do regardless of what aircraft I selected. Thanks to all you who took the time to reply. I will follow up on this post once I make a decision! Frank |
#25
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HpH 304CZ as first sailplane
WOW! I never expected such a great response!.
I sincerely appreciate the thoughtful and thought provoking comments. You have all given me lots of food for thought. Obviously the issue of proper training and preparation is number one. In my mind this is a given. I posed the question because I have an oppportunity to purchase a 304CZ that is in my neighborhood and comes from a highly recommended source. I know that I may have to sit on it for a while until I get up to speed in the category, but after reading all the reponses it honestly doesn't seem like it's something that is "out of my league", again given the proper instruction. I will DEFINATELY do the dual cross country training that has been recommended. This is a great idea and something I had planned to do regardless of what aircraft I selected. Thanks to all you who took the time to reply. I will follow up on this post once I make a decision! Frank |
#26
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HpH 304CZ as first sailplane
Yes, this is one of the cool things about older ships--I understand it used
to be a requirement of the class. Again, I don't know about the 304, only the 303. "Raphael Warshaw" wrote in message ... I wasn't aware that the brakes on the 304 would limit speed to below redline in a vertical dive. If true, the ship goes way up in my estimate of suitability for a new-to-glass pilot. The manual on my LAK-17 says that the brakes can be fully extended at redline but to "expect high aerodynamic forces". I haven't tried it either. Ray Warshaw 1LK "303SAM" wrote in message ... I don't understand "redlline speed and recovery, even with the spoilers out". The 303 has terminal speed limiting brakes, doesn't the 304? My 303 doesn't quite make it to manuevering speed with the brakes out and the nose pointed at the ground. The POH mentions a 2G deceleration if you pull it all out at redline. Have no intentions of trying that one on my 29 year old lady. wrote in message oups.com... I agree that the Grob is the least "304-like" of the aircraft I mentioned, but it will accelerate quickly enough to make the important points about spiral dives, redlline speed and recovery, even with the spoilers out, and will float well enough to emphasize the issues of speed control on landing. I agree that a Duo, K-21 or DG-1000 would be better for the purpose, but these are less available in the local rental/instructional fleets. Ray Warshaw |
#27
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Flying with Karl
Just an aside re Parowan and KS. At the end of one day, Karl came over
as we were tying down our PW-6 and commented that in two thermals when we were together, he could never climb his Duo up to us -- surprise. Udo Rumpf wrote: I flew 2 flights with KS at the Parowan Nationals last summer. Maybe it was just me, but watching him was not a good learning experience. It is like watching the cam over the driver's shoulder at the Indianapolis 500 -- that won't help you at all if you try to drive one of those cars. For me, at least, I would need to be the one flying, with someone in the back seat telling me what I was doing wrong. Not to say that it wasn't a great experience -- it was, but just not one that would help me with my flying. That is an interesting observation. I was thinking of taking a few contest rides with him. In my case I would be happy just to watch and analyse his action, as I would be interested in pushing my average up. Karl may not be the ideal candidate for me, in terms of his approach to contest flying maybe Doug Jacobs would be the better temperament for me. On the other hand my learning curve is still going up but flatter then I would like. And the challenge to learn on ones own is rewarding too. Udo -- Charles Yeates ZS Jezow Agent - PW-6/PW-5 CMYeates & Associates 105 Dunbrack St, Apt 110 Halifax, NS, Canada, B3M 3G7 tel/fax 902.443.0094 Web site http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/yeatesc/world.html |
#28
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HpH 304CZ as first sailplane
The 304CZ has a performance pretty close to the ASW 20 with somewhat
more benign handling, safer cockpit and being newly built comes with modern instruments and a trailer. As 2NO points out, you won't be quite as competitive at the higher wing loadings, but I wouldn't let that put you off. It's a very capable cross-country ship (check out 2NO's just-under-1000km flight last year) and has a strong following in the USA. It's one of the few non-German gliders that sells well and keeps its value. Also gliders available in your area are worth many thousands more than those across the country - trust me on this! Mike |
#29
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HpH 304CZ as first sailplane
303SAM wrote:
Yes, this is one of the cool things about older ships--I understand it used to be a requirement of the class. Again, I don't know about the 304, only the 303. It was my understanding that it was a requirement that the airbrakes limit speed to less than Vne even at extreme dive angles. However, I wouldn't count on that. I seem to remember reading something from Schweitzer claiming that although their gliders were compliant with that, many of their competitor's weren't. They also went on to say they thought the requirement was unreasonable and that they felt their competitor's performed fine within a reasonable pitch angle (45 degrees?) Point is, don't try this at home... dan |
#30
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HpH 304CZ as first sailplane
Nope, the 304 airbrakes are not terminal velocity limiting. If you've
flown one, you'd think so, but the HpH team says no. The manual says to expect a 2g decelleration if you pop those bad boys at high speed. It is correct. Make sure your stuff is stashed or it ends up by the rudder pedals. Ok, it was a sandwich... Bill |
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