Cloud Flying

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:

I see where you're going, but would you ask these questions
about airplane traffic that was pointed out? Remember that
the glider is in Class A. Either he's in a wave window
(American's pilot is probably not even familiar with them
unless he's also a glider pilot) and there is an assigned
block of airspace that's being kept clear of other IFR
traffic, or he's on a IFR flight plan and is being treated
like all other IFR traffic. Either way, the controller is
responsible for IFR/IFR separation in the CAAS and there's
no real reason to question the glider's altimeter over that
of any other traffic - is there?

Todd, let's say the heavy airplane pilot, let's call him Clutch, is
issued traffic, another airplane, let's say in the same position as the
glider in F2s' scenario, "11 o'clock and 15 miles'. Clutch would most
likely not say another word, other than "traffic in sight" if he picked
him up visually. Because, both airplanes are equipped with Mode S
xponders, and ACAS II rev. 7 TCAS (traffic conflict alert system)
equipment. They can see each others position relative to their own and
their altitude, and it even tells Clutch whether the other guy is
climbing or descending, on their TCAS. Also both airplanes, in todays
world are most likely RVSM(reduced vertical separation minima)
certified, which means that above Flight level 290, up to, I believe
it's up to FL430 now, we operate with only 1000 foot of vertical
separation between aircraft. To receive that certification the
aircrafts static system, pitot, and even the skin around each of those
items has to pass rigorous tests.

Todd, with regard to your flight where you had 10,000ft separation,
I'm guessing you were flying in a wave window.

Yes.

Would also like to ask if you use a transponder.

No, but there are times I'd like to have one.

Todd, that's why Clutch asked for the thirty degree turn in the
scenario! Thanks for the input! Now snoop is heading to the glider port
to put the glider together for tomorrows fun!





--
T o d d P a t t i s t - "WH" Ventus C
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)

snoop wrote:
TCAS (traffic conflict alert system)


TCAS is "Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System"

Andy

snoop wrote:

him up visually. Because, both airplanes are equipped with Mode S
xponders, and ACAS II rev. 7 TCAS (traffic conflict alert system)
equipment. They can see each others position relative to their own and
their altitude, and it even tells Clutch whether the other guy is
climbing or descending, on their TCAS. Also both airplanes, in todays
world are most likely RVSM(reduced vertical separation minima)
certified, which means that above Flight level 290, up to, I believe
it's up to FL430 now, we operate with only 1000 foot of vertical
separation between aircraft. To receive that certification the
aircrafts static system, pitot, and even the skin around each of those
items has to pass rigorous tests.

Wow, I didn't realize ALL those aircraft built 30, 40 or 50 years ago
have been upgraded and meet these requirements.

Snoop, there's a lot of old airplanes up there that are probably in
worse shape to fly IFR than some sailplanes...

-Tom

5Z wrote:
snoop wrote:

This whole discussion is about SOARING in clouds.
What we are talking about is operation at say, 6,000' AGL and above in
the middle of Kansas. The only issues are about what is required to be
legal to continue circling up into that nice towering cu. And once
topped out at FL200, the glider pops out the side, then continues on to
the next nice cloud in VMC.

This has been a fascinating discussion, but this post from 5Z is the
only one which actually made any sense to me.

I don't come from the Land of the Free but from over-regulated UK. To
fly in clouds I make sure I'm not in danger of entering controlled
airspace, call on 103.4, and if no-one answers that they're in the same
cloud I climb into it. No instrument rating, nothing but my own
assessment of whether I can do it safely. That's our law. I'm sure
there's an offence of reckless flying (or equivalent), but I'm prepared
to defend my decision so off I go.

Now, if 5Z could tell me how to straighten up and pop out of the side,
rather than blundering about on strange ellipses and eventually sinking
out of the bottom, I might be able to make use of cloud climbs.

What does concern me is this fear of the regulations. OK, I'm a lawyer,
but that just means I know that there's no certainty in any laws. My
view is that if it's not specifically outlawed, and you think that it's
safe and a desirable thing to do, then you should just do it. No
prosecutor brings a case if there not a better than 50/50 chance of winning.

If we're going to restrict ourselves to what's completely risk free, why
are we flying? And if any of us stop doing what is, more likely than
not, legal in our countries, some regulator will use that as an excuse
to stop us doing it in future because there's no demand for it.

What's wrong with you guys? Was the Boston Tea Party for nothing? If you
meet the FAR requirements and want to fly in clouds, why aren't you
doing it?

snoop wrote:

Jack wrote:

Cloud flying in gliders in the US is poorly understood and grossly under
appreciated.


Jack, where have you been....

I love you man!

Yeccch!

You've obviously mistaken me for someone who...well, never mind. But, I
am not the Jack you're looking for. Note the difference in email
addresses and respect for good ol' heavy metal american-made flyin'
machines.


Jack

My apologies. Thought you were my old friend Jack out of Clovis, a Pik
driver. I did notice, at your suggestion, your email address. Baron?
Nah my buddy JACK is more of Beech 18 kinda guy, no Barons. Barons are
for pilots who say yeccch. Zoom!

Jack wrote:
snoop wrote:

Jack wrote:

Cloud flying in gliders in the US is poorly understood and grossly under
appreciated.


Jack, where have you been....

I love you man!

Yeccch!

You've obviously mistaken me for someone who...well, never mind. But, I
am not the Jack you're looking for. Note the difference in email
addresses and respect for good ol' heavy metal american-made flyin'
machines.


Jack

snoop wrote:

My apologies. Thought you were my old friend Jack out of Clovis, a Pik
driver. I did notice, at your suggestion, your email address. Baron?
Nah my buddy JACK is more of Beech 18 kinda guy, no Barons. Barons are
for pilots who say yeccch. Zoom!

Ahh, yes -- the email address thing -- it's a short and boring story. I
should change that some day -- never had a Baron. Got a little bit of
time in BE-18's but not enough in that bull ring to make me more than a
lowly Banderillero -- one fire and one engine failure worth. With some
of those old fly-by-night mail/freight operations, that could have been
about a week's worth of flying, of course. Took me eight long months.

Only time I've ever been to Clovis was for gunnery in the AT-33 -- nice
little boondoggle that was part of FAC training for SEA. Glad to hear
the SpecOps people going into Cannon will help keep the town alive a
little longer. Your buddy should have pretty good soaring weather in
Clovis, though, compared to NE IL this year.

If you're up around Chicago, come out west of town about 50 miles and
fly with us:

http://www.windycitysoaring.org

-- if it ever quits raining.



Jack

Hinckley, I believe? The first dollar earned flying, was towing with
the 150hp C150 for Al Freedy and the gentleman who owned the property,
Mr. Bastian, I believe. Whenever I'm in town visiting family, I usually
stop in. Miss the area, in the summertime!

Jack wrote:
snoop wrote:

My apologies. Thought you were my old friend Jack out of Clovis, a Pik
driver. I did notice, at your suggestion, your email address. Baron?
Nah my buddy JACK is more of Beech 18 kinda guy, no Barons. Barons are
for pilots who say yeccch. Zoom!

Ahh, yes -- the email address thing -- it's a short and boring story. I
should change that some day -- never had a Baron. Got a little bit of
time in BE-18's but not enough in that bull ring to make me more than a
lowly Banderillero -- one fire and one engine failure worth. With some
of those old fly-by-night mail/freight operations, that could have been
about a week's worth of flying, of course. Took me eight long months.

Only time I've ever been to Clovis was for gunnery in the AT-33 -- nice
little boondoggle that was part of FAC training for SEA. Glad to hear
the SpecOps people going into Cannon will help keep the town alive a
little longer. Your buddy should have pretty good soaring weather in
Clovis, though, compared to NE IL this year.

If you're up around Chicago, come out west of town about 50 miles and
fly with us:

http://www.windycitysoaring.org

-- if it ever quits raining.



Jack

snoop wrote:
Hinckley, I believe? The first dollar earned flying, was towing with
the 150hp C150 for Al Freedy and the gentleman who owned the property,
Mr. Bastian, I believe.

That's right.

The _last_ dollar I earned flying was towing at 0C2, during the last
season that Hinckley Soaring was in operation. Hinckley Soaring put a
lot of pilots into the air in gliders over a thirty-year span, but all
good things must come to an end. Al is now a very valuable addition to
our club, but I miss being able to soar during the week.


Jack