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Rules on what can be in a hangar



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 25th 04, 09:45 PM
Brett Justus
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Default Rules on what can be in a hangar

Our airport commission has talked about going around and looking in
hangars to crack down on "volatile" liquids being stored within. I
think mainly they're concerned about people keeping fuel for use in
heaters, where there is a more likely ignition source in addition to
the liquids being present.

I would like to propose they consider limits on quantities and safety
rules concerning use rather than an all out ban -- which would largely
go ignored anyway. We have several homebuilders; how can they build
planes without ever using flammables? I burn auto gas and usually
bring out 5-6 5 gallon containers, keeping them in the hangar until
used. If I have 40 gals in my C-172 + 30 gals in cans, that's still a
lot less than a Cherokee six might have in its tanks in the next
hangar. The danger is during fueling and that could be addressed with
rules on grounding, fire extinguisher present, door open to ventilate,
etc.

If anyone has a copy of hangar rules that are reasonable, I would like
to get a copy if possible. I'd also appreciate hearing from any who
will take the time to respond what the rules are at your airport.

Thanks,

- Brett
  #2  
Old February 25th 04, 11:37 PM
mikem
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Default

Rules for self-fueling on the airport are separate from storing
flammables in the hangar. Requires training, approved containers,
bonding, and distance from nearest other buildings and aircraft.

Storing of flammables in our leased hangars at SLIA is strictly
prohibited in the lease.

Fuelling of aircraft inside the hangar is strictly prohibited in the lease.

If you do it, and you start a fire which effects other hangars, guess
who they are going to come after???


MikeM

Brett Justus wrote:

Our airport commission has talked about going around and looking in
hangars to crack down on "volatile" liquids being stored within. I
think mainly they're concerned about people keeping fuel for use in
heaters, where there is a more likely ignition source in addition to
the liquids being present.

I would like to propose they consider limits on quantities and safety
rules concerning use rather than an all out ban -- which would largely
go ignored anyway. We have several homebuilders; how can they build
planes without ever using flammables? I burn auto gas and usually
bring out 5-6 5 gallon containers, keeping them in the hangar until
used. If I have 40 gals in my C-172 + 30 gals in cans, that's still a
lot less than a Cherokee six might have in its tanks in the next
hangar. The danger is during fueling and that could be addressed with
rules on grounding, fire extinguisher present, door open to ventilate,
etc.

If anyone has a copy of hangar rules that are reasonable, I would like
to get a copy if possible. I'd also appreciate hearing from any who
will take the time to respond what the rules are at your airport.

Thanks,

- Brett


  #3  
Old February 25th 04, 11:51 PM
Jim Weir
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Default

Makes it kind of dicey to keep a quart of oil around then, doesn't it? Or do
they define the flash point of the "flammable"? Normally, so many quarts of
engine oil is outside the "flammable" limits, or "flammable" is defined with a
flash point. Hell, TEFLON is flammable if you get the sucker hot enough {;-)

And what about parts washers? No solvent based cleaners allowed? That's why
the lid has a thermal fuse in it.

"No" and "strictly" are generally modified in other clauses of the contract.

Jim


mikem
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-
-Storing of flammables in our leased hangars at SLIA is strictly
-prohibited in the lease.

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com
  #4  
Old February 26th 04, 12:26 AM
ks_av8r
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Posts: n/a
Default

There may be more "rules" in place depending on the location. Building
codes, IBC and others in use, have several limitations on aircraft hangers
as far as the amount of flammables permissable. This is partly due to the
assumption that the aircraft is already laden with fuel and an external
source of flame could create quite a conflagration. So your airport
commission may not necessarily be the source of the rules, but may be
getting heat (no pun intended) from fire marshalls, insurance companies and
the like. The building official of the area should have the code that is in
use available for purchase or even to look through their copy. NFPA, IFC
and other codes could also be locally adopted.

Hope this helps a little


"Brett Justus" wrote in message
om...
Our airport commission has talked about going around and looking in
hangars to crack down on "volatile" liquids being stored within. I
think mainly they're concerned about people keeping fuel for use in
heaters, where there is a more likely ignition source in addition to
the liquids being present.

I would like to propose they consider limits on quantities and safety
rules concerning use rather than an all out ban -- which would largely
go ignored anyway. We have several homebuilders; how can they build
planes without ever using flammables? I burn auto gas and usually
bring out 5-6 5 gallon containers, keeping them in the hangar until
used. If I have 40 gals in my C-172 + 30 gals in cans, that's still a
lot less than a Cherokee six might have in its tanks in the next
hangar. The danger is during fueling and that could be addressed with
rules on grounding, fire extinguisher present, door open to ventilate,
etc.

If anyone has a copy of hangar rules that are reasonable, I would like
to get a copy if possible. I'd also appreciate hearing from any who
will take the time to respond what the rules are at your airport.

Thanks,

- Brett



  #5  
Old February 26th 04, 02:02 AM
mikem
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Jim Weir wrote:

Makes it kind of dicey to keep a quart of oil around then, doesn't it? Or do
they define the flash point of the "flammable"?


Oil in quart containers is exempted.

Normally, so many quarts of
engine oil is outside the "flammable" limits, or "flammable" is defined with a
flash point. Hell, TEFLON is flammable if you get the sucker hot enough {;-)

And what about parts washers? No solvent based cleaners allowed? That's why
the lid has a thermal fuse in it.


A gallon or two of Stoddard solvent
is ok, provided it is in an rated parts washer with the fusible link.

MikeM

  #8  
Old February 26th 04, 03:57 PM
Dennis O'Connor
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Default

It is things like that which pushed me into biting the bullet and owning a
hangar.. Yes, I know not all can do that and I feel privileged... And, I do
have to drive to another town to get to it - though the trip is worthwhile
when I listen to the groaning from renters over issues like rules, having to
add the airport to their insurance reducing their coverage, being told
who/what they can bring on the airport, etc...

The one advantage I hadn't suspected came when the FAA and the State
inspector came onto the field and started going through the county owned
rental hangars taking down tail numbers, peering into cockpits, copying down
information off the internal and exterior stickers, etc... My big door was
open and the cowlings were off, though I had gone to the Pep Boys for an
extra half inch wrench... I never seem ot have enough of those
The guvmint boys eyes lit up like christmas trees and they started to parade
three abreast into my hangar until the airport manager quietly said, 'that's
private property guys and he's a hard nosed sob', whereupon they spun on
their heels and scooted back onto airport property - not that they should
have found anything against regs, but ya never know...
denny

"Mike Adams" wrote in message
news:7Pe%b.3377$id3.2211@fed1read01...
(Brett Justus) wrote:

If anyone has a copy of hangar rules that are reasonable, I would like
to get a copy if possible.



  #9  
Old February 26th 04, 04:38 PM
Michelle P
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Posts: n/a
Default

Brett,
Empty containers are more of an explosion hazard than full ones. Then
again full ones can be the source for explosive gases :-(
I keep MEK and 5606 in the hangar, not counting the 80 gallons in the
fuel tanks of the planes.
So where is the real risk? The small amount of MEK or the amount of
Av-gas in the aircraft?
Seems silly.
Michelle

Brett Justus wrote:

Our airport commission has talked about going around and looking in
hangars to crack down on "volatile" liquids being stored within. I
think mainly they're concerned about people keeping fuel for use in
heaters, where there is a more likely ignition source in addition to
the liquids being present.

I would like to propose they consider limits on quantities and safety
rules concerning use rather than an all out ban -- which would largely
go ignored anyway. We have several homebuilders; how can they build
planes without ever using flammables? I burn auto gas and usually
bring out 5-6 5 gallon containers, keeping them in the hangar until
used. If I have 40 gals in my C-172 + 30 gals in cans, that's still a
lot less than a Cherokee six might have in its tanks in the next
hangar. The danger is during fueling and that could be addressed with
rules on grounding, fire extinguisher present, door open to ventilate,
etc.

If anyone has a copy of hangar rules that are reasonable, I would like
to get a copy if possible. I'd also appreciate hearing from any who
will take the time to respond what the rules are at your airport.

Thanks,

- Brett



--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

  #10  
Old February 27th 04, 03:39 AM
MichaelR
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Default

It amazes me that it's OK to park a 40 year old airplane with 100+ gallons
of fuel held in old rubber bladders with half a dozen ancient quick-drains
in a hangar, but if you have a brand-new 5 gallon govt-approved gas can for
dumping fuel samples, the airport manager throws a fit.


 




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