Cessna sued for skydiving accident.

Dudley Henriques wrote:
C J Campbell wrote:
The parents of Bryan Jones, a 34 year old Microsoft engineer who was
one of nine skydivers killed in the crash of a Cessna Caravan, are
suing Cessna. The Caravan was returning from Star, Idaho, to Shelton,
Washington. The parents are alleging that the Cessna Caravan was
defective and should not have been flying in icy weather. The airplane
is not certified for flight into known ice, although the plane in
question did have boots.

So, Cessna is being blamed because a pilot may have operated the plane
in direct contradiction to the aircraft flight manual and warnings in
Cessna's operating instructions.

If this is true, you are viewing what has become one of the prime
reasons associated with the virtual end of General Aviation as at least
I knew it for the first 25 years I was involved in aviation.
It's the trial lawyers. They will go after anything and everything with
deep pockets involved in an accident. They operate in conditions like
these on the premise that REGARDLESS of the appropriate and
inappropriate actions of a pilot, if one screw was out of place on the
aircraft itself, the manufacturer can be litigated for financial gain.
In many cases, it is my understanding that manufacturers simply "settle"
the suits rather than defend them based upon specific lawyers
reputations for their ability to sway juries.
It's nothing but sheer extortion in the majority of the cases.

A truly unfortunate aside to this "practice" is that the phony
litigations are so frequent and so costly, there is a very good chance
that the legitimate cases where there actually is just cause for a
lawsuit are often looked at in the same jaundiced eye by the public as
the phony cases and true justice can suffer.
The lawyers can be "congratulated" for literally destroying not only GA,
but for the most part, the publics' faith and dependence in a true and
honest justice system.


I'm not a fan of tort lawyers either, I realize that it takes two to
tango. Americans have also become greedy and want something for nothing
and they are willing co-conspirators with the lawyers. The lawyers hold
out the candy (just want the ads on TV something), but the greedy public
gobbles it down.

Matt

Morgans wrote:
"kontiki" wrote

Most people have received a pitiful economic
education in this country (thanks to the in-bred nature of government
schools) tso they don't have a clue.

********************************

I am sick to death of everyone placing the blame for everything on
"government schools." It is very possible to get a good education at
government schools, if you want to learn. The blame for most of the
problems with government schools is the lack of motivation of the students,
and is a failure of the parents of kids who are not motivated to learn.

What does economic education have to do with leaning about a hopelessly
screwed up justice system have to do with the price of beans in China? That
seems like it would be a government-social studies failure, if anything.

Blaming the schools alone isn't legitimate, but they certainly have been
a significant contributor. Public schools long ago moved from a
"personal responsibility" to a "self-esteem" based approached that has
been disastrous and is a significant contributor to many of society's
problems today.

No longer can schools punish students as it is either illegal or will
harm the students' self-esteem. When a student fails a class, we blame
everyone but the student and find a way to move them along anyway. I
know you have public school connections (your wife as I recall), but the
reality is that public schools HAVE contributed to this phenomenon of
sending subtle, and sometimes not so subtle, messages that nothing is
YOUR fault it is the fault of the "system", and don't worry as the
"system" will take care of you anyway.

Matt

Morgans wrote:


What does economic education have to do with leaning about a hopelessly
screwed up justice system have to do with the price of beans in China?

If you have to ask that question then you are one of the victims.

Jay Honeck wrote:

That said, there *is* a slant to the way things are taught in schools
that I find disturbing. To grossly over-simplify, this slant amounts
to an over-egalitarian "Everyone is equal, no one is better than
anyone else, everyone plays no matter how inept, business is evil but
the gummint will take care of you from cradle-to-grave" attitude that
sounds great on paper but produces kids without a work ethic or moral
compass.


The reason there is a "slant" to a public education is that the
vast majority of teachers graduate from public schools, then
go to a college or university then go right into teaching. That
is inbreeding... pretty much the same way with politicians...
most have never had an actual real job in their life.

I'm not gonna argue this beyond what I have just said because
those that believe in these systems will defend them forever.
Meanwhile, the US continues into its slow economic and cultural
decline. The current state of GA is but a symptom of this.

People like to shoot the messenger but its a fact.

"Maxwell" wrote

I don't think that is really the case. It does indeed take people seeking
recovery to start the process. But I have never seen a lawyer get involved
with a case in the interest of justice. They pick and choose who they help
base on yeild, not justice.

Both the plaintiff and his or her lawyer share a portion of the blame, no
doubt. But the fact remains that none of it could take place without a
willing plaintiff no matter how many morally corrupt lawyers there are out
there. I guess it shows how quickly many of us are willing to throw
everything we know about what is right and what is wrong out the window if
the price is right.

BDS

"Maxwell" wrote in message ...


I don't think that is really the case. It does indeed take people seeking recovery to start the process. But I have
never seen a lawyer get involved with a case in the interest of justice. They pick and choose who they help base on
yeild, not justice.



Yup, it is simply good 'business'...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message ...

If this is true, you are viewing what has become one of the prime reasons associated with the virtual end of General
Aviation as at least I knew it for the first 25 years I was involved in aviation.
It's the trial lawyers. They will go after anything and everything with deep pockets involved in an accident. They
operate in conditions like these on the premise that REGARDLESS of the appropriate and inappropriate actions of a
pilot, if one screw was out of place on the aircraft itself, the manufacturer can be litigated for financial gain.
In many cases, it is my understanding that manufacturers simply "settle" the suits rather than defend them based upon
specific lawyers reputations for their ability to sway juries.
It's nothing but sheer extortion in the majority of the cases.

A truly unfortunate aside to this "practice" is that the phony litigations are so frequent and so costly, there is a
very good chance that the legitimate cases where there actually is just cause for a lawsuit are often looked at in the
same jaundiced eye by the public as the phony cases and true justice can suffer.
The lawyers can be "congratulated" for literally destroying not only GA, but for the most part, the publics' faith and
dependence in a true and honest justice system.

--
Dudley Henriques

This has been going on for a very long time! Sue McDonalds because you spilled coffee on your lap? Sue Parker because
the pilot followed a failing gyro into the ground? This is not new news, and the sheep in the USA simply eat it up,
because maybe, just maybe, their ticket will come in and they, too, can hit it big! It is the lotto mentality that is
dragging us down. No wonder there are so many jobs available for the immigrant worker; many americans simply don't think
they need to do a hard days work, and that they are entitled to a better life without doing the work...

Matt Whiting wrote:

No longer can schools punish students as it is either illegal or will
harm the students' self-esteem. When a student fails a class, we blame
everyone but the student and find a way to move them along anyway. I
know you have public school connections (your wife as I recall), but the
reality is that public schools HAVE contributed to this phenomenon of
sending subtle, and sometimes not so subtle, messages that nothing is
YOUR fault it is the fault of the "system", and don't worry as the
"system" will take care of you anyway.


Yes, its a huge problem that tends to feed on itself. But before
any solution can be attained there must first be a recognition
that a problem exists and an understanding of the nature of
the problem. Then there must be the ability to use some critical
thinking (i.e. thinking outside the box) that most people lack.

I submit that this is to a significant degree due to the fact that
it is not taught or even encouraged in the current education system.
There are other factors of course, but I our education system is
probably the most important one. If someone is not educated enough
to recognize that a problem exists there can never be a solution.

On Dec 2, 6:57 am, Jay Honeck wrote:

Hear, hear! Well put.

That said, there *is* a slant to the way things are taught in schools
that I find disturbing. To grossly over-simplify, this slant amounts
to an over-egalitarian "Everyone is equal, no one is better than
anyone else, everyone plays no matter how inept, business is evil but
the gummint will take care of you from cradle-to-grave" attitude that
sounds great on paper but produces kids without a work ethic or moral
compass.

This "Everyone is equal" teaching really gets in the way of your
supremist slant.

Luckily, this can be easily "over-written" with proper parenting
skills.

Jay, you Uber Parent you! Tell us more about how bitchen you are.

Too many parents aren't aware
of (or don't care about) this subtle undercurrent in the schools that,
over time, has produced a society of lazy, sue-happy "it's not my
fault!" people.

Here is that "Everyone education is flawed" thing again. This comes
uip in many of your posts. Can you not accept that others might have
opinions other than your own?
FB
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck:
That said, there *is* a slant to the way things are taught in schools
that I find disturbing. To grossly over-simplify, this slant amounts
to an over-egalitarian "Everyone is equal, no one is better than
anyone else, everyone plays no matter how inept, business is evil but
the gummint will take care of you from cradle-to-grave" attitude that
sounds great on paper but produces kids without a work ethic or moral
compass.

"F. Baum" wrote:
This "Everyone is equal" teaching really gets in the way of your
supremist slant.

Luckily, this can be easily "over-written" with proper parenting
skills.

Jay, you Uber Parent you! Tell us more about how bitchen you are.

Too many parents aren't aware
of (or don't care about) this subtle undercurrent in the schools that,
over time, has produced a society of lazy, sue-happy "it's not my
fault!" people.

Here is that "Everyone education is flawed" thing again. This comes
uip in many of your posts. Can you not accept that others might have
opinions other than your own?

It's easy for parents with kids that have given them little trouble to
talk about other parents who "aren't aware of or don't care about" this
or that or about what schools lack.

Some of us knocked ourselves out every bit as much as you did, Jay, to
produce good, honest, decent, productive offspring -- kids with good
value systems and some awareness of how to set "priorities". There for
them as much as you have been, filling in all the holes that ANY
educational system has ... still to have kids with skewed attitudes. It
happens.

I applaud you if your parental time and effort paid off exactly the way
you planned it. But not everyone in the generation of "lazy, sue-happy
'it's not my fault' people" are the result of parents who "aren't aware
or don't care" or who didn't teach their kids about work ethics or give
them a moral compass. Some people of that mindset had parents who were
just as aware, cared just as much, and worked just as hard to teach,
educate, and guide their kids. They simply don't *all* take the path
(even in their thinking) we would choose for them.