Landing on one wheel

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

john smith wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote:
The spring type one piece main gear legs are as you say much better
suited to taking any side loads that might be imposed then an oleo
leg.
In this scenario, the principal negative is excessive tire wear due
to
scrubbing.

Ah! But what about the wheelpants? :-))


My guess would be that if a pilot is catching a pant while attempting
a
one wheel landing, that pilot is in wind WAY over their head :-))))


Zachery. I had a nasty experience somewhat realted to this about ten
years ago in my Luscombe. I had bought a pair of wheel pants form
Wagaero. Fiberglass ones. The field I fly from is a bit muddy so I
fiberglassed a pair of "dams" in the back just behind the wheel to
prevent mud building up inside of the pants.
Anyhow. i dropped a friend at a paved strip to collect is airplane and
while taxiing in I noticed it was pulling to one side a bit. It had
mechanical brakes so I got out the tools and let the cable on that side
slack a bit and went to go home. It was very windy. About 25 knots with
a fair bit of crosswind from the right ( the left wheel was pulling a
bit still, but not what I considered significant) I rolled and just as I
rotated the airplane lurched left with a god awful screech. Airborne and
catching my wind, I climbed away and wondered WTF that was all about. A
bit later I looked out at my left wheel and saw my wheel pant pointing
straight down! ****.
I flew back to my home base. The wind there couldn't have been more
favorable. It was about 25 knots, about 25 degrees off the runway
heading from the right. I was able to touch down and keep my left wing
up almost to walking pace, when the left wheel came down and I did a
gentle groundloop to the left. Very little damage to the pant, BTW. The
bracket broke and a bit of fiberglass was ground away is all.
Couple of interesting points about it were; the field I went to was
unpaved and also uninhabited, so no emergency services if I had hurt
myself. (No radio on this ship) However, my friend had seen the incident
from the ground and called his wife to be at the field when I arrived. I
did have the presence of mind to try and ensure that the impact , if I
did flip it, wouldn't ruin my looks. I took off my glasses and took the
pen out of my pocket. I thought about using the vacant seat cushion on
the panel just in case, but couldn't figure a way to fasten it there. (
no shoulder harness) Anyhow, I got away with it and no real harm done.
The cause, of course, was one of those dams I had put inside the pant
coming adrift and lodging itself between the wheel and the pant.

Bertie

wrote in
:

On Mar 18, 2:53 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
john smith wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote:
The spring type one piece main gear legs are as you say much
better suited to taking any side loads that might be imposed then
an oleo leg. In this scenario, the principal negative is excessive
tire wear due to scrubbing.

Ah! But what about the wheelpants? :-))

My guess would be that if a pilot is catching a pant while attempting
a one wheel landing, that pilot is in wind WAY over their head :-))))

--
Dudley Henriques

Might explain the Lufthansa incident...

An impromptu flying farmer act in an A320? cool!


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

john smith wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote:
The spring type one piece main gear legs are as you say much better
suited to taking any side loads that might be imposed then an oleo
leg.
In this scenario, the principal negative is excessive tire wear due
to
scrubbing.
Ah! But what about the wheelpants? :-))

My guess would be that if a pilot is catching a pant while attempting
a
one wheel landing, that pilot is in wind WAY over their head :-))))


Zachery. I had a nasty experience somewhat realted to this about ten
years ago in my Luscombe. I had bought a pair of wheel pants form
Wagaero. Fiberglass ones. The field I fly from is a bit muddy so I
fiberglassed a pair of "dams" in the back just behind the wheel to
prevent mud building up inside of the pants.
Anyhow. i dropped a friend at a paved strip to collect is airplane and
while taxiing in I noticed it was pulling to one side a bit. It had
mechanical brakes so I got out the tools and let the cable on that side
slack a bit and went to go home. It was very windy. About 25 knots with
a fair bit of crosswind from the right ( the left wheel was pulling a
bit still, but not what I considered significant) I rolled and just as I
rotated the airplane lurched left with a god awful screech. Airborne and
catching my wind, I climbed away and wondered WTF that was all about. A
bit later I looked out at my left wheel and saw my wheel pant pointing
straight down! ****.
I flew back to my home base. The wind there couldn't have been more
favorable. It was about 25 knots, about 25 degrees off the runway
heading from the right. I was able to touch down and keep my left wing
up almost to walking pace, when the left wheel came down and I did a
gentle groundloop to the left. Very little damage to the pant, BTW. The
bracket broke and a bit of fiberglass was ground away is all.
Couple of interesting points about it were; the field I went to was
unpaved and also uninhabited, so no emergency services if I had hurt
myself. (No radio on this ship) However, my friend had seen the incident
from the ground and called his wife to be at the field when I arrived. I
did have the presence of mind to try and ensure that the impact , if I
did flip it, wouldn't ruin my looks. I took off my glasses and took the
pen out of my pocket. I thought about using the vacant seat cushion on
the panel just in case, but couldn't figure a way to fasten it there. (
no shoulder harness) Anyhow, I got away with it and no real harm done.
The cause, of course, was one of those dams I had put inside the pant
coming adrift and lodging itself between the wheel and the pant.

Bertie
Good job on not dinging it. We used to take the pants off our training
planes for the winter each year to keep ice from causing similar issues.


--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

john smith wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote:
The spring type one piece main gear legs are as you say much
better suited to taking any side loads that might be imposed then
an oleo
leg.
In this scenario, the principal negative is excessive tire wear
due
to
scrubbing.
Ah! But what about the wheelpants? :-))

My guess would be that if a pilot is catching a pant while
attempting
a
one wheel landing, that pilot is in wind WAY over their head :-))))


Zachery. I had a nasty experience somewhat realted to this about ten
years ago in my Luscombe. I had bought a pair of wheel pants form
Wagaero. Fiberglass ones. The field I fly from is a bit muddy so I
fiberglassed a pair of "dams" in the back just behind the wheel to
prevent mud building up inside of the pants.
Anyhow. i dropped a friend at a paved strip to collect is airplane
and while taxiing in I noticed it was pulling to one side a bit. It
had mechanical brakes so I got out the tools and let the cable on
that side slack a bit and went to go home. It was very windy. About
25 knots with a fair bit of crosswind from the right ( the left wheel
was pulling a bit still, but not what I considered significant) I
rolled and just as I rotated the airplane lurched left with a god
awful screech. Airborne and catching my wind, I climbed away and
wondered WTF that was all about. A bit later I looked out at my left
wheel and saw my wheel pant pointing straight down! ****.
I flew back to my home base. The wind there couldn't have been more
favorable. It was about 25 knots, about 25 degrees off the runway
heading from the right. I was able to touch down and keep my left
wing up almost to walking pace, when the left wheel came down and I
did a gentle groundloop to the left. Very little damage to the pant,
BTW. The bracket broke and a bit of fiberglass was ground away is
all. Couple of interesting points about it were; the field I went to
was unpaved and also uninhabited, so no emergency services if I had
hurt myself. (No radio on this ship) However, my friend had seen the
incident from the ground and called his wife to be at the field when
I arrived. I did have the presence of mind to try and ensure that the
impact , if I did flip it, wouldn't ruin my looks. I took off my
glasses and took the pen out of my pocket. I thought about using the
vacant seat cushion on the panel just in case, but couldn't figure a
way to fasten it there. ( no shoulder harness) Anyhow, I got away
with it and no real harm done. The cause, of course, was one of those
dams I had put inside the pant coming adrift and lodging itself
between the wheel and the pant.

Bertie
Good job on not dinging it. We used to take the pants off our training
planes for the winter each year to keep ice from causing similar
issues.



Yeanh, I should have done the same year round in this place, but it was
so much prettier with them on!


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

john smith wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote:
The spring type one piece main gear legs are as you say much
better suited to taking any side loads that might be imposed then
an oleo
leg.
In this scenario, the principal negative is excessive tire wear
due
to
scrubbing.
Ah! But what about the wheelpants? :-))
My guess would be that if a pilot is catching a pant while
attempting
a
one wheel landing, that pilot is in wind WAY over their head :-))))

Zachery. I had a nasty experience somewhat realted to this about ten
years ago in my Luscombe. I had bought a pair of wheel pants form
Wagaero. Fiberglass ones. The field I fly from is a bit muddy so I
fiberglassed a pair of "dams" in the back just behind the wheel to
prevent mud building up inside of the pants.
Anyhow. i dropped a friend at a paved strip to collect is airplane
and while taxiing in I noticed it was pulling to one side a bit. It
had mechanical brakes so I got out the tools and let the cable on
that side slack a bit and went to go home. It was very windy. About
25 knots with a fair bit of crosswind from the right ( the left wheel
was pulling a bit still, but not what I considered significant) I
rolled and just as I rotated the airplane lurched left with a god
awful screech. Airborne and catching my wind, I climbed away and
wondered WTF that was all about. A bit later I looked out at my left
wheel and saw my wheel pant pointing straight down! ****.
I flew back to my home base. The wind there couldn't have been more
favorable. It was about 25 knots, about 25 degrees off the runway
heading from the right. I was able to touch down and keep my left
wing up almost to walking pace, when the left wheel came down and I
did a gentle groundloop to the left. Very little damage to the pant,
BTW. The bracket broke and a bit of fiberglass was ground away is
all. Couple of interesting points about it were; the field I went to
was unpaved and also uninhabited, so no emergency services if I had
hurt myself. (No radio on this ship) However, my friend had seen the
incident from the ground and called his wife to be at the field when
I arrived. I did have the presence of mind to try and ensure that the
impact , if I did flip it, wouldn't ruin my looks. I took off my
glasses and took the pen out of my pocket. I thought about using the
vacant seat cushion on the panel just in case, but couldn't figure a
way to fasten it there. ( no shoulder harness) Anyhow, I got away
with it and no real harm done. The cause, of course, was one of those
dams I had put inside the pant coming adrift and lodging itself
between the wheel and the pant.

Bertie
Good job on not dinging it. We used to take the pants off our training
planes for the winter each year to keep ice from causing similar
issues.



Yeanh, I should have done the same year round in this place, but it was
so much prettier with them on!


Bertie
Adds a few knots on a 150. Anything on the Luscombe?

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

john smith wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote:
The spring type one piece main gear legs are as you say much
better suited to taking any side loads that might be imposed
then
an oleo
leg.
In this scenario, the principal negative is excessive tire wear
due
to
scrubbing.
Ah! But what about the wheelpants? :-))
My guess would be that if a pilot is catching a pant while
attempting
a
one wheel landing, that pilot is in wind WAY over their head
:-))))

Zachery. I had a nasty experience somewhat realted to this about
ten
years ago in my Luscombe. I had bought a pair of wheel pants form
Wagaero. Fiberglass ones. The field I fly from is a bit muddy so I
fiberglassed a pair of "dams" in the back just behind the wheel to
prevent mud building up inside of the pants.
Anyhow. i dropped a friend at a paved strip to collect is airplane
and while taxiing in I noticed it was pulling to one side a bit. It
had mechanical brakes so I got out the tools and let the cable on
that side slack a bit and went to go home. It was very windy. About
25 knots with a fair bit of crosswind from the right ( the left
wheel
was pulling a bit still, but not what I considered significant) I
rolled and just as I rotated the airplane lurched left with a god
awful screech. Airborne and catching my wind, I climbed away and
wondered WTF that was all about. A bit later I looked out at my
left
wheel and saw my wheel pant pointing straight down! ****.
I flew back to my home base. The wind there couldn't have been more
favorable. It was about 25 knots, about 25 degrees off the runway
heading from the right. I was able to touch down and keep my left
wing up almost to walking pace, when the left wheel came down and I
did a gentle groundloop to the left. Very little damage to the
pant,
BTW. The bracket broke and a bit of fiberglass was ground away is
all. Couple of interesting points about it were; the field I went
to
was unpaved and also uninhabited, so no emergency services if I had
hurt myself. (No radio on this ship) However, my friend had seen
the
incident from the ground and called his wife to be at the field
when
I arrived. I did have the presence of mind to try and ensure that
the
impact , if I did flip it, wouldn't ruin my looks. I took off my
glasses and took the pen out of my pocket. I thought about using
the
vacant seat cushion on the panel just in case, but couldn't figure
a
way to fasten it there. ( no shoulder harness) Anyhow, I got away
with it and no real harm done. The cause, of course, was one of
those
dams I had put inside the pant coming adrift and lodging itself
between the wheel and the pant.

Bertie
Good job on not dinging it. We used to take the pants off our
training
planes for the winter each year to keep ice from causing similar
issues.



Yeanh, I should have done the same year round in this place, but it
was
so much prettier with them on!


Bertie
Adds a few knots on a 150. Anything on the Luscombe?

Not that you would notice. These were fiberglass replicas of the
original ali ones and were pretty fat.


Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

john smith wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote:
The spring type one piece main gear legs are as you say much
better suited to taking any side loads that might be imposed
then
an oleo
leg.
In this scenario, the principal negative is excessive tire wear
due
to
scrubbing.
Ah! But what about the wheelpants? :-))
My guess would be that if a pilot is catching a pant while
attempting
a
one wheel landing, that pilot is in wind WAY over their head
:-))))
Zachery. I had a nasty experience somewhat realted to this about
ten
years ago in my Luscombe. I had bought a pair of wheel pants form
Wagaero. Fiberglass ones. The field I fly from is a bit muddy so I
fiberglassed a pair of "dams" in the back just behind the wheel to
prevent mud building up inside of the pants.
Anyhow. i dropped a friend at a paved strip to collect is airplane
and while taxiing in I noticed it was pulling to one side a bit. It
had mechanical brakes so I got out the tools and let the cable on
that side slack a bit and went to go home. It was very windy. About
25 knots with a fair bit of crosswind from the right ( the left
wheel
was pulling a bit still, but not what I considered significant) I
rolled and just as I rotated the airplane lurched left with a god
awful screech. Airborne and catching my wind, I climbed away and
wondered WTF that was all about. A bit later I looked out at my
left
wheel and saw my wheel pant pointing straight down! ****.
I flew back to my home base. The wind there couldn't have been more
favorable. It was about 25 knots, about 25 degrees off the runway
heading from the right. I was able to touch down and keep my left
wing up almost to walking pace, when the left wheel came down and I
did a gentle groundloop to the left. Very little damage to the
pant,
BTW. The bracket broke and a bit of fiberglass was ground away is
all. Couple of interesting points about it were; the field I went
to
was unpaved and also uninhabited, so no emergency services if I had
hurt myself. (No radio on this ship) However, my friend had seen
the
incident from the ground and called his wife to be at the field
when
I arrived. I did have the presence of mind to try and ensure that
the
impact , if I did flip it, wouldn't ruin my looks. I took off my
glasses and took the pen out of my pocket. I thought about using
the
vacant seat cushion on the panel just in case, but couldn't figure
a
way to fasten it there. ( no shoulder harness) Anyhow, I got away
with it and no real harm done. The cause, of course, was one of
those
dams I had put inside the pant coming adrift and lodging itself
between the wheel and the pant.

Bertie
Good job on not dinging it. We used to take the pants off our
training
planes for the winter each year to keep ice from causing similar
issues.


Yeanh, I should have done the same year round in this place, but it
was
so much prettier with them on!


Bertie
Adds a few knots on a 150. Anything on the Luscombe?

Not that you would notice. These were fiberglass replicas of the
original ali ones and were pretty fat.


Bertie
Yeah. Come to think of it, they were those little fat guys weren't they.
They looked a lot like the ones on the Cessna 140 if I recall.

--
Dudley Henriques

On Mar 18, 10:11 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
wrote:
On Mar 18, 8:04 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Ol Shy & Bashful wrote: This is fun stiring the pot! OK ...how many of you practice doing a
one wheel touch and go from time to time. And I don't mean by
accident.
I did it all the time with tailwheel students, and still do it with
students in 172's. We frequently get winds that are 15 G25 90 to the
runway and topography that makes the winds squirrly as hell on the
west end. Learning good crosswind techniques are vital.
I recognize different techniques are needed for different aircraft
with wing clearance, etc but I still did them with lots of different
low wing aircraft like Piper Pawnee, Cessna Ag Husky, Ag Cat,
Stearman, Thrush and so on.
Ol S&B
We had occasion one time to loan Miss America to Bob Hoover to use for
his demonstration. His P51 had been damaged in a forced landing the day
before. The only stipulation we placed on his use of the airplane was
that he not do any one wheel landings. It was strongly felt by all of us
that these "landings" if not directly, at least have a strong potential
to place undue stress on the main gear leg and attach points where the
wheel meets the axle.
True, this was our personal choice, but I would still feel this way today.
I've never actually asked Bob to clarify the issue by disclosing if he
ever had maintanence done on the main gear oleos on his 51, so to be
fair, it was then and is as I write this an open issue and simply a
matter of opinion.

--
Dudley Henriques

Pretty hard to damage the gear on a Citabria doing that.
They're stout, to withstand the abuses of the novice. I've done the
one-wheel thing with students in the past, students who are having
trouble transitioning to the taildragger. The one-wheel touch-and-go
teaches them to fly the airplane ALL the time, not just until
touchdown like they tend to do in a trike. It also develops strong
crosswind skills. After that, they're careful in trikes, too, since
now they know that the airplane really isn't finished flying until
it's tied down. Every so often you hear of another 172 or something
that came to grief after the pilot made a successful touchdown, only
to lose it in the rollout.

Dan

The argument for practicing one wheel landings as a teaching tool can
indeed be made and the technique is not a new concept for instructors
dealing with tail wheel instruction.

The spring type one piece main gear legs are as you say much better
suited to taking any side loads that might be imposed then an oleo leg.
In this scenario, the principal negative is excessive tire wear due to
scrubbing.

It's a toss up really. If monitored closely by the instructor, it most
certainly can be done without serious incident.
I would say that I personally have not used this technique in teaching
tail wheel students having found it unnecessary to do so.

I should say that I have stood facing down a runway while doing safety
work at air shows and watched this being done by pilots who were
experiencing what I would easily classify as excessive and damaging side
loads placed on their main gear as touchdowns were made cross controlled
but WAY off the required correction for the existing wind conditions.

I've used the technique myself doing comedy acts in Citabrias and
Decathlons both. I was a fair stick (on ccasion anyway :-) and I've
stressed a tire or two and felt that "spring released force" myself on
occasion as a sudden wind shift screwed up my carefully planned out one
wheel landing :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Best way to do it: get into the flare for a wheel landing,
wings level, then just as the mains are ready to touch, lower one
wheel to the surface. Don't need a lot of bank, but as speed decays
more aileron and down-elevator will be required. Add power to keep
speed up. With one wheel off a little, the lift vector isn't much and
the tendency to scrub the rolling tire isn't all that great. Bank into
any crosswind, not away from it. Lifting an upwind wing is surely
asking for a busted airplane. Don't do any of this if you're not
already proficient at wheel landings.
I can't quite maintain it in the Jodel unless I'm near
liftoff speed. The gear is too far apart (F-11 type spring leaf) and
the wings, being so short, make the ailerons a little feeble doing
this.
Taildraggers are fun. They make a real pilot out of you. You
find out just how inept you really are. If you're gonna spend money on
flying, make sure you spend some on a taildragger checkout. Makes the
trike drivers envious in the worst way. And, don't forget, taildragger
pilots drink their coffee black.

Dan

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:


Yeah. Come to think of it, they were those little fat guys weren't they.
They looked a lot like the ones on the Cessna 140 if I recall.


Yes,. Very Art Deco.


Bertie

wrote in
:

On Mar 18, 10:11 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
wrote:
On Mar 18, 8:04 am, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Ol Shy & Bashful wrote: This is fun stiring the pot! OK ...how
many of you practice doing a
one wheel touch and go from time to time. And I don't mean by
accident.
I did it all the time with tailwheel students, and still do it
with students in 172's. We frequently get winds that are 15 G25
90 to the runway and topography that makes the winds squirrly as
hell on the west end. Learning good crosswind techniques are
vital. I recognize different techniques are needed for different
aircraft with wing clearance, etc but I still did them with lots
of different low wing aircraft like Piper Pawnee, Cessna Ag
Husky, Ag Cat, Stearman, Thrush and so on.
Ol S&B
We had occasion one time to loan Miss America to Bob Hoover to use
for his demonstration. His P51 had been damaged in a forced
landing the day before. The only stipulation we placed on his use
of the airplane was that he not do any one wheel landings. It was
strongly felt by all of us that these "landings" if not directly,
at least have a strong potential to place undue stress on the main
gear leg and attach points where the wheel meets the axle.
True, this was our personal choice, but I would still feel this
way today. I've never actually asked Bob to clarify the issue by
disclosing if he ever had maintanence done on the main gear oleos
on his 51, so to be fair, it was then and is as I write this an
open issue and simply a matter of opinion.

--
Dudley Henriques

Pretty hard to damage the gear on a Citabria doing that.
They're stout, to withstand the abuses of the novice. I've done the
one-wheel thing with students in the past, students who are having
trouble transitioning to the taildragger. The one-wheel
touch-and-go teaches them to fly the airplane ALL the time, not
just until touchdown like they tend to do in a trike. It also
develops strong crosswind skills. After that, they're careful in
trikes, too, since now they know that the airplane really isn't
finished flying until it's tied down. Every so often you hear of
another 172 or something that came to grief after the pilot made a
successful touchdown, only to lose it in the rollout.

Dan

The argument for practicing one wheel landings as a teaching tool can
indeed be made and the technique is not a new concept for instructors
dealing with tail wheel instruction.

The spring type one piece main gear legs are as you say much better
suited to taking any side loads that might be imposed then an oleo
leg. In this scenario, the principal negative is excessive tire wear
due to scrubbing.

It's a toss up really. If monitored closely by the instructor, it
most certainly can be done without serious incident.
I would say that I personally have not used this technique in
teaching tail wheel students having found it unnecessary to do so.

I should say that I have stood facing down a runway while doing
safety work at air shows and watched this being done by pilots who
were experiencing what I would easily classify as excessive and
damaging side loads placed on their main gear as touchdowns were made
cross controlled but WAY off the required correction for the existing
wind conditions.

I've used the technique myself doing comedy acts in Citabrias and
Decathlons both. I was a fair stick (on ccasion anyway :-) and I've
stressed a tire or two and felt that "spring released force" myself
on occasion as a sudden wind shift screwed up my carefully planned
out one wheel landing :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Best way to do it: get into the flare for a wheel landing,
wings level, then just as the mains are ready to touch, lower one
wheel to the surface. Don't need a lot of bank, but as speed decays
more aileron and down-elevator will be required. Add power to keep
speed up. With one wheel off a little, the lift vector isn't much and
the tendency to scrub the rolling tire isn't all that great. Bank into
any crosswind, not away from it. Lifting an upwind wing is surely
asking for a busted airplane. Don't do any of this if you're not
already proficient at wheel landings.
I can't quite maintain it in the Jodel unless I'm near
liftoff speed. The gear is too far apart (F-11 type spring leaf) and
the wings, being so short, make the ailerons a little feeble doing
this.
Taildraggers are fun. They make a real pilot out of you. You
find out just how inept you really are. If you're gonna spend money on
flying, make sure you spend some on a taildragger checkout. Makes the
trike drivers envious in the worst way. And, don't forget, taildragger
pilots drink their coffee black.

I drink tea.


Bertie