F-105 and A-4 loss rates over North Vietnam

Guy Alcala wrote:
KDR wrote:

Thanks a million for your detailed reply.

Was there any big difference in tactics between the F-105 and A-4?
Ingress altitude, delivery profile, etc.

That is a subject with far too many details that varied with time and
circumstance to explain in a post that wasn't book length. So let me
recommend several books:-) First, find a copy of "Clashes: Air Combat
over North Vietnam 1965-1972" by Marshall L. Michel III. This covers
the US side of the air war, USAF and USN, showing how tactics,
technology and training varied and changed during the war. I'd also
recommend "On Yankee Station", by John B. Nichols and Barrett Tilman,
for an good overview of purely navy ops (Nichols' comments are based
on personal experience as an F-8 pilot and eventual Squadron CO). For
a collection of personal accounts from the navy side, I recommend
"Alfa Strike: Vietnam" as you'll find excellent descriptions of navy
strike ops with A-1s, A-4s, A-6s and A-7s there. For the USAF side of
things, there are numerous personal memoirs, mostly by Thud drivers.
I'd recommend Broughton's "Going Downtown" as being somewhat similar
in scope to "On Yankee Station", albeit being limited to the Rolling
Thunder period (as well as Korea) and being more personally-oriented.
His earlier book "Thud Ridge" was limited to a greater extent by what
he could say during the war, and I haven't read if for some years. Ed
Rasimus has of course written his own books, and while I haven't
gotten ahold of his Linebacker-era "Palace Cobra" yet, I can highly
recommend "When Thunder Rolled". I also liked Ken Bell's "100
Missions North" (Ed and I disagree about this one somewhat, or rather
about Bell's competence). I've yet to read Richard P. Hallion's book
"To Hanoi and Back"; I confess I've been disappointed in the past by
Hallion's pushing the official line a bit too obviously for my taste,
unsurprising as he's the USAF's chief historian. I could name a bunch
more, but the first two or three should be plenty to get you going.

I wonder if the small size of the A-4 could have made it a more
difficult target for AAA.

That was one of the things that Scooter drivers believed (or at least
told themselves they believed) gave theman advantage compared to
larger a/c during the war ;-) While it undoubtedly was a smaller
target and would thus be (slightly) less likely to be hit, any hit was
also likely to have more effect, AOTBE. Diving into barrage AAA,
whether you're hit or not is an exercise in probability; only size and
time (spent in the weapons envelope) will affect your chance of being
hit.

Guy

Many thank for recommendations. I already read "When Thunder Rolled" so
it looks like a good choice to pick "Alfa Strike: Vietnam" to know more
about the Skyhawk ops.

"KDR" wrote in news:1145256249.136365.188260
@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:

Guy Alcala wrote:
snip
For
a collection of personal accounts from the navy side, I recommend
"Alfa Strike: Vietnam" as you'll find excellent descriptions of navy
strike ops with A-1s, A-4s, A-6s and A-7s there.
snip
Guy

Many thank for recommendations. I already read "When Thunder Rolled" so
it looks like a good choice to pick "Alfa Strike: Vietnam" to know more
about the Skyhawk ops.



Guy, also my thanks, I have two of these books on their way to my local
library thanks to your comments.

To pick one nit, you may have better luck looking under Alpha than Alfa:

Alpha strike Vietnam : the Navy's air war, 1964 to 1973
Jeffrey L. Levinson
ISBN 0891413383

"Peter A. Stoll" wrote:

"KDR" wrote in news:1145256249.136365.188260
@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:

Guy Alcala wrote:
snip
For
a collection of personal accounts from the navy side, I recommend
"Alfa Strike: Vietnam" as you'll find excellent descriptions of navy
strike ops with A-1s, A-4s, A-6s and A-7s there.
snip
Guy

Many thank for recommendations. I already read "When Thunder Rolled" so
it looks like a good choice to pick "Alfa Strike: Vietnam" to know more
about the Skyhawk ops.



Guy, also my thanks, I have two of these books on their way to my local
library thanks to your comments.

To pick one nit, you may have better luck looking under Alpha than Alfa:

Alpha strike Vietnam : the Navy's air war, 1964 to 1973
Jeffrey L. Levinson
ISBN 0891413383

Quite so, as I noticed when I borrowed my local library's copy today to
re-read;-) I couldn't remember how they used the phonetic alphabet in this
case: It's Alpha strike but Alfa class sub.

Guy

see http://www.acig.org
and
also see http://home.sprynet.com/~anneled/usloss.html
(http://home.sprynet.com/~anneled/usvictor.html)

Mike
go A-1 Skyraider

US Air-to-Air Losses in the Vietnam War
Last revised: June 9 2002


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Quite a bit has been written about aerial combat that took place during
the United States' military involvement in Vietnam. This list attempts
to bring information together from numerous sources, so as to provide
an accounting of all air-to-air losses of American aircraft. Some
information on this list is controversial, as it is in disagreement
with US DoD claims (no B-52s were downed in air-air action, etc.).
After considering the validity of the sources involved, all claims made
by reputable parties have been included.

Two notes:

"Not confirmed" means the loss has been claimed by the North
Vietnamese, but the loss does not appear in US records.
"Attributed to" means that the loss is attributed to a different cause
than claimed by the North Vietnamese.
We believe that this list by no means complete. We welcome and
information that others might be able to provide.

A note on sources. Information from the following sources was used to
prepare this list:

MIA and PoW accounting information available on the Internet.

Vietnam Air Losses, by Chris Hobson, Midland Publishing, 2001. Perhaps
the ultimate source, but lacking US Army losses.

Air War Over North Viet Nam; The Vietnamese People's Air Force
1949-1977, by Dr. Istvan Toperczer, Squadron/Signal Publications, 1998.
A book prepared from information provided by the Vietnamese People's
Air Force. This book contains a list of air-to-air victories claimed by
North Vietnamese pilots.

MiG-17 and MiG-19 Units of the Vietnam War, by Dr. Istvan Toperczer,
Osprey Publishing, 2001.

MiG-21 Units of the Vietnam War, by Dr. Istvan Toperczer, Osprey
Publishing, 2001.

Clashes; Air Combat Over North Vietnam 1965-1972, by Marshall L.
Michell III, Naval Institute Press, 1997. An excellent source of
information on US losses.

Wings of Fame, Vol. 8, article on MiG-17 units and Vol 11 on MiG-19
units, Aerospace publishing/AIRtime

Fighter Combat In The Jet Age, by David C. Isby, HarperCollins, 1997

Air War Hanoi, by Robert F. Dorr, 1988

One Day in a Long War: May 10, 1972 by Jeffrey Ethell and Alfred Price,
Random House, 1989

Air International magazine, article and reader's letters, from Feb 1990

Roll Call Thud, by John Campbell, Schiffer, 1996

Journey Into Darkness, by Philip Smith an Peggy Herz, Pocket Books,
1992

....And Kill MiGs, by Lou Drendel, Squadron/Signal Publications, 1997

Lightning Bugs and Other Reconnaissance Drones, by William Wagner, Aero
Publishers, 1982

History of China's Aviation, by Jun Yao, et al., Beijing, China, 1998

US Losses By Date
Date Victim Crew Service Victor
Weapon Country Pilot(s) Source Comments
16-Feb-64 C-123 USA T-28
Cannon N. Vietnam Nguyen Van Ba Toperczer One survivor
15-Nov-64 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-17
PR China Kaitong Xu Yao/Wagner
02-Jan-65 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF
PR China Huailian Zhang
24-Mar-65 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-17
PR China Xiangyi Wang Yao
31-Mar-65 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-17
PR China Jicheng Su Yao/Wagner
03-Apr-65 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG
PR China Xiaohai Dong Yao/Wagner
03-Apr-65 F-8 USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Phan Van Tuc Toperczer Not confirmed
04-Apr-65 F-105D Bennett USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Tran Hanh WoF
04-Apr-65 F-105D Magnusson USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Le Min Huan WoF
09-Apr-65 F-4B Murphy/Fegan USN F-4B
AIM-7 USA Lost while in combat with
PRoC MiG-17s
18-Apr-65 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF
PR China Huailian Zhang
17-Jun-65 F-4 MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Le Trong Long Toperczer Not confirmed
17-Jun-65 F-4 MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
20-Jun-65 A-1H USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
20-Jun-65 A-1H USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
20-Jun-65 F-4C Kari/Briggs USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer
20-Jul-65 F-4 MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
03-Aug-65 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-17
PR China
21-Aug-65 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-17
PR China Jicheng Su Yao
20-Sep-65 F-104C Smith USAF MiG-19
Cannon PR China Gao Xiang Smith/Yao
20-Sep-65 F-4 MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Nguyen Nhat Chieu Toperczer Not confirmed
05-Oct-65 F-104C or RA-3 USAF MiG
PR China Yunbao Zhang Isby/Yao Not confirmed
14-Oct-65 F-105D Schuler USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Roll Call
06-Nov-65 CH-3C Lilly/Singleton/Naugle/Cormier USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Hanh/Hung/Lan/Phuong Toperczer Attributed to
ground fire
24-Dec-65 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-17
PR China Yilong Zhu Yao/Wagner
03-Jan-66 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-17
PR China Xiangxiao Lu Yao/Wagner
03-Feb-66 A-1H USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Lam Van Lich Toperczer Not confirmed
03-Feb-66 A-1H USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Lam Van Lich Toperczer Not confirmed
07-Feb-66 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-19
PR China Quanmin Feng Yao/Wagner
04-Mar-66 F-4 USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Ngo Duc Mai Toperczer Not confirmed
04-Mar-66 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Hong Nhi Toperczer
05-Mar-66 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-19
PR China Xiaoqing Sun Yao/Wagner
14-Mar-66 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam Nguyen Hong Nhi Toperczer/Wagner
23-Mar-66 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-19
PR China Yilong Zhu Yao/Wagner
12-Apr-66 KA-3B Gleason/Jordan/Harris/Pugh USN MiG
Cannon PR China Laixi Li Yao
25-Apr-66 RF-4C Anderson/Tucker USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Ho Van Quy Toperczer
26-Apr-66 F-4C USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Ho Van Quy Toperczer Not confirmed
26-Apr-66 F-4C USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Ho Van Quy Toperczer Not confirmed
29-Apr-66 A-1E Boston USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Drendel
29-Apr-66 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-19
PR China
05-Jun-66 F-8 USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam 923 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
05-Jun-66 F-8 USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam 923 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
07-Jun-66 F-105D Bayles USAF MiG-21
Rocket N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Attributed to
AAA
09-Jun-66 F-4 MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
09-Jun-66 F-4 MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
21-Jun-66 F-8E Black USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Trung/Duong/Tan/Bay/Tuc Attributed to
AAA
21-Jun-66 RF-8A Eastman USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Trung/Duong/Tan/Bay/Tuc WoF Attributed to
AAA
29-Jun-66 F-105D Jones USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Huyen/Man/Bay/Tuc WoF Attributed to
AAA
29-Jun-66 F-105 USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Huyen/Man/Bay/Tuc Toperczer Not confirmed
07-Jul-66 F-105D Tomes USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Tran Ngoc Xiu Toperczer Attributed to
AAA
11-Jul-66 F-105D McLelland USAF MiG-21
Fuel N. Vietnam Dinh/Song Drendel/Toperczer
13-Jul-66 Unknown MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Phan Than Trung Toperczer Not confirmed
14-Jul-66 F-8E Bellinger USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Ngo Duc Mai WoF
19-Jul-66 F-105D Diamond USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Vo Van Man RollCall
19-Jul-66 F-105D Steere USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Nguyen Bien Toperczer Attributed to
AAA
19-Jul-66 F-4 MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Nguyen Ba Dich Toperczer Not confirmed
29-Jul-66 RC-47 Conklin/Hoskinson+6 USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Luu Huy Chao Isby
05-Sep-66 F-8E Abbott (USAF) USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam 923 Regiment Toperczer
05-Sep-66 F-8 USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam 923 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
16-Sep-66 F-4C Robertson/Buchana USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam PoW-MIA
21-Sep-66 F-4C Kellems/Thomas USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Dorr
21-Sep-66 F-105D Ammon USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Attributed to
AAA
05-Oct-66 F-4C Garland/Andrews USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Michel
09-Oct-66 F-4B Tanner/Terry USN MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Van Minh Michel Attributed to
AAA
09-Oct-66 F-4 USN MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Van Minh Toperczer Not confirmed
02-Dec-66 F-4C Burns/Ducat USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Attributed to
SAM
02-Dec-66 F-4C Flesher/Berger USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Attributed to
SAM
02-Dec-66 F-105D Moorberg USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Attributed to
AAA
05-Dec-66 F-105D Begley USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam PoW-MIA Toperczer:
MiG-21
05-Dec-66 F-105 or F-4 USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
08-Dec-66 F-105D Asire USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Hobson Toperczer:
MiG-21
08-Dec-66 F-105D USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
14-Dec-66 F-105D Cooley USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Dong Van De Michel
14-Dec-66 F-105D USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
14-Dec-66 F-105D USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
05-Feb-67 F-4 MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
26-Mar-67 F-4C Crow/Fowler USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Attributed to
SAM
14-Apr-67 F-4B USN MiG
PR China Yimin Song Yao Not confirmed
19-Apr-67 F-105F Madison/Sterling USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Michel
19-Apr-67 F-105 USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
19-Apr-67 A-1E Hamilton USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Tan/Tho/Trung Michel
19-Apr-67 A-1H MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Tan/Tho/Trung Toperczer Not confirmed
24-Apr-67 F-4C Knapp/Austin USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Man/Dich/Bay/Hon Toperczer Attributed to
AAA
24-Apr-67 F-4B Southwick/Laing USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Toai/Hai/Chao/Ky Toperczer
24-Apr-67 F-4 MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Man/Dich/Bay/Hon Toperczer Not confirmed
25-Apr-67 A-4C Stackhouse USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Bay/Hon/Bon/Dich Dorr/WoF
25-Apr-67 A-4E Crebo USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Bay/Hon/Bon/Dich Toperczer Attributed to
SAM
25-Apr-67 F-8 USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Bay/Hon/Bon/Dich Toperczer Not confirmed
25-Apr-67 F-105 Weskamp USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Toai/Hai/Chao/Ky Toperczer Attributed to
SAM or AAA
28-Apr-67 F-105D Caras USAF MiG-21
Cannon N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Michel
29-Apr-67 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG
PR China Jintang Zhang Yao
30-Apr-67 F-105D Abbott,J USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Van Coc Toperczer
30-Apr-67 F-105F Thorsness/Johnson USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Le Trong Huyen Toperczer
30-Apr-67 F-105D Abbott,R USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Ngoc Do Toperczer
30-Apr-67 F-105 USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam Vu Ngoc Dinh Toperczer Not confirmed
12-May-67 F-4C Gaddis/Jefferson USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Ngo Duc Mai Michel
12-May-67 F-105F Pitman/Stewart USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam Huyen/Song Toperczer
12-May-67 F-105 Grenzebach USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Tan/Tho Toperczer Attributed to
AAA
12-May-67 F-4C USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Tinh/Hai/Mai/Ky Toperczer Not confirmed
12-May-67 F-4C USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Tinh/Hai/Mai/Ky Toperczer Not confirmed
19-May-67 F-4B Plumb/Anderson USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Phan Thanh Tai Toperczer Attributed to
SAM
19-May-67 F-4B Rich/Stark USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Ngyuen Huu Diet Toperczer Attributed to
SAM
20-May-67 F-4C Van Loan/Milligan USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Tai/Diet Michel
22-May-67 F-4C Perrine/Backus USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam Dang Ngoc Ngu Toperczer Attributed to AAA
12-Jun-67 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-19
PR China Guangcai Liu Yao
26-Jun-67 F-4C Blandord/Jarvis USAF MiG-17
Cannon PR China Jiliang Lu/Zhushu Wang Isby/Yao
11-Jul-67 A-4 USN MiG-21
N. Vietnam Huyen/Song Toperczer Not confirmed
17-Jul-67 F-8 USN MiG-21
N. Vietnam Nguyen Nhat Chieu Toperczer Not confirmed
20-Jul-67 F-4 MiG-21
N. Vietnam Do/Ngan Toperczer Not confirmed
26-Jul-67 RF-4C Corbitt/Bare USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer
09-Aug-67 RF-4C Lengyel/Myers USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer
21-Aug-67 A-6A Scott/Trembley USN MiG-19
Cannon PR China Ruijie Han PoW-MIA/Yao
21-Aug-67 A-6A Buckley/Flynn USN MiG-19
Cannon PR China Fengxia Chen PoW-MIA/Yao
23-Aug-67 F-4C Tyler/Sittner USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Van Coc Michel

23-Aug-67 F-4C Carrigan/Lane USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Tho/Diep Toperczer
23-Aug-67 F-105 Baker USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Nhat Chieu Toperczer Attributed to
AAA
23-Aug-67 F-105 USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Cao Thanh Tinh Toperczer Not confirmed
23-Aug-67 F-105 USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Cao Thanh Tinh Toperczer Not confirmed
23-Aug-67 F-4 MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Tinh/Phong/Diep Toperczer Not confirmed
16-Sep-67 RF-101C Bagley USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam Nguyen Ngoc Do Michel
16-Sep-67 RF-101C Patterson USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam Pam Thanh Ngan Toperczer Attributed to AAA
17-Sep-67 RF-4C Stavast/Venanzi USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Attributed to
SAM
03-Oct-67 F-4D Moore/Gulbrandson USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Michel
07-Oct-67 F-105F Howard/Shamblee USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Van Coc Michel
09-Oct-67 F-105D Clements USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Roll Call
25-Oct-67 F-105 Horinek USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Nguyen Huu Tao Toperczer Attributed to
AAA
08-Nov-67 F-4D Gordon/Brenneman USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Hong Nhi Michel
08-Nov-67 F-4 MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Dang Kinh Toperczer Not confirmed
18-Nov-67 F-105F Dardeau/Lenhoff USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Van Coc Michel
18-Nov-67 F-105D Reed USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Michel
19-Nov-67 F-4B Clower/Estes USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Le Hai Michel Attributed to
Atoll
19-Nov-67 F-4B Teague/Stier USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Nguyen Din Phuc Michel
19-Nov-67 F-4B USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Nguyen Phi Hung Toperczer Not confirmed
19-Nov-67 EB-66 USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam Dinh/Kinh Toperczer Not confirmed
20-Nov-67 F-105D Butler USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Van Coc? Michel
12-Dec-67 F-105 USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
14-Dec-67 F-8 USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Toperczer Not confirmed
16-Dec-67 F-4D Low/Hill USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Michel
17-Dec-67 F-105D Ellis USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Vu Ngoc Dnh Michel
17-Dec-67 F-105 USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Vu Ngoc Dinh Toperczer Not confirmed
17-Dec-67 F-105 USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam Nguyen Hong Nhi Toperczer Not confirmed
17-Dec-67 F-4D Fleenor/Boyer USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Michel
17-Dec-67 F-4C Brett/Smith USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Toperczer Attributed to
AAA
19-Dec-67 F-105 USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam Nguyen Van Coc Toperczer Not confirmed
19-Dec-67 Unknown MiG-21
N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
19-Dec-67 Unknown MiG-21
N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
19-Dec-67 Unknown MiG-21
N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
03-Jan-68 F-105 USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Bui Duc Nhu Toperczer Not confirmed
03-Jan-68 F-4 MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Bui Van Suu Toperczer Not confirmed
03-Jan-68 F-105 USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Ha Van Chuc Toperczer Not confirmed
03-Jan-68 F-105D Bean USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Dang Kinh Michel
05-Jan-68 F-105F Hartney/Fantle USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Michel
14-Jan-68 EB-66C Mercer/Terrel +5 USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Kinh/Song Michel Isby:
MiG-17/Alkali
14-Jan-68 F-105D Horne USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Michel
18-Jan-68 F-4D Simonet/Smith USAF
N. Vietnam Drendel
18-Jan-68 F-4D Hinckley/Jones USAF
N. Vietnam Drendel
20-Jan-68 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-19
PR China Yongwu Han/Yongcheng Zhou Yao/Wagner
03-Feb-68 F-102A Wiggins USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Van Coc Michel
04-Feb-68 F-105D Lasiter USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Michel
14-Feb-68 A-1H Dunn USN MiG-17
PR China Wulu Chen/Shunyi Wang Isby/Yao
23-Feb-68 F-4D Gutterson/Donald USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Vu Ngoc Dinh Michel
03-Mar-68 EB-66 USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam Kinh/Thuan Toperczer Not confirmed
07-Mar-68 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-19
PR China Wenxing Jiang/Zhiyao Wang Yao/Wagner
15-Mar-68 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-19
PR China Zhixin Wang/Enhua Zhang Yao/Wagner
18-Apr-68 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-19
PR China Huailan Zhang Yao/Wagner
07-May-68 F-4B Christensen/Kramer USN MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Van Coc Michel
14-Jun-68 F-4 MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Le Hai Toperczer Not confirmed
14-Jun-68 F-4 MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Luu Huy Chao Toperczer Not confirmed
16-Jun-68 F-4J Wilber/Rupinski USN MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Dinh Ton Michel
19-Jul-68 F-8 USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Le Hai Toperczer Not confirmed
01-Aug-68 F-8 USN MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Hong Nhi Toperczer Not confirmed
17-Aug-68 F-4B Gartley/Mayhew USN F-4B
AIM-9 USA Michel
19-Sep-68 F-8C USN MiG-21
N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
21-Sep-68 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam Nguyen Dang Kinh Toperczer
26-Oct-68 F-4 USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
20-Dec-69 OV-1 Long USA MiG
N. Vietnam
??-Dec-69 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam Nguyen Van Coc Toperczer
??-Dec-69 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam Nguyen Van Coc Toperczer
18-Jan-70 F-4 USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam Phan Dinh Tuan Toperczer Not confirmed
28-Jan-70 HH-53B Bell/Leeser +4 USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Vu Ngoc Dinh Michel
10-Feb-70 AQM-34 Unmanned USN MiG-19
PR China Deqi Qi/Xincheng Zhou Yao/Wagner
??-???-71 UH-1 USA MiG-17
N. Vietnam
09-Mar-71 AQM-34 Unmanned USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Luong Duc Truong Toperczer
18-Dec-71 F-4D Johnson/Vaughn USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Le Thanh Dao Drendel
18-Dec-71 F-4D Stanley/O'Brien USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Vo Si Giap Drendel
18-Dec-71 F-4D Hildebrand/Wells USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Michel
27-Apr-72 F-4B Molinare/Souder USN MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Hoang Quoc Dung Michel
08-May-72 F-4 MiG-19
N. Vietnam Nguyen Ngoc Tiep Toperczer Not confirmed
08-May-72 F-4 MiG-19
N. Vietnam Nguyen Hong Son Toperczer Not confirmed
10-May-72 F-4D Harris/Wilkinson USAF MiG-19
Cannon N. Vietnam Pham Hung Son Ethell/Price
10-May-72 F-4D Lodge/Locher USAF MiG-19
Cannon N. Vietnam Nguyen Manh Tung Ethell/Price
10-May-72 F-4E USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Dang Ngoc Ngu Toperczer Not confirmed
10-May-72 F-4 MiG-21
N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
10-May-72 F-4J Blackburn/Rudloff USN MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Le Thanh Dao Toperczer Attributed to
AAA
10-May-72 F-4J Cunningham/Driscoll USN MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Vu Duc Hop Toperczer Attributed to
SAM
11-May-72 F-105G Talley/Padgett USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Ngo Duy Thu Michel
11-May-72 F-4D Kittinger/Reich USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Ngo Van Phu Michel
18-May-72 F-4D Ratzel/Bednarek USAF MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam 923 Regiment Toperczer
18-May-72 F-4 MiG-19
N. Vietnam 925 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
18-May-72 F-4 MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Hong Nhi Toperczer Not confirmed
20-May-72 F-4D Markle/Williams USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Do Van Linh Michel Attributed to
stall/spin
23-May-72 A-7 Barnett USN MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Duc Soat O'Connor Attributed to
SAM
23-May-72 F-4D Byrns/Bean USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Attributed to AAA
23-May-72 F-4 MiG-19
N. Vietnam Pham Hong Son Toperczer Not confirmed
23-May-72 F-4 MiG-19
N. Vietnam Nguyen Hong Son Toperczer Not confirmed
24-May-72 F-8J Beeler USN
N. Vietnam Drendel Attributed to SAM
01-Jun-72 F-4E Hawks/Dingee USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Pham Phu Thai Toperczer Attributed to
SAM
13-Jun-72 F-4D Hanson/Fulton USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Pham Phu Thai Michel
13-Jun-72 F-4 MiG-21
N. Vietnam Do Van Lanh Toperczer Not confirmed
21-Jun-72 F-4D Rose/Callaghan USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Do Van Lanh Michel
23-Jun-72 F-4D USAF MiG-21
other N. Vietnam Michel Stall/spin -
Not confirmed
24-Jun-72 F-4C Grant/Beekman USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Duc Soat Michel
24-Jun-72 F-4C McCarty/Jackson USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Van Nghia Toperczer
24-Jun-72 F-4 USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Ngo Duy Thu Toperczer Not confirmed
26-Jun-72 F-4 MiG-21
N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
27-Jun-72 F-4E Cerak/Dingee USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Duc Soat Michel
27-Jun-72 F-4E Miller/McDow USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Bui Thanh Liem Michel
27-Jun-72 F-4E Aikman/Hanton USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Pham Phu Thai Michel
27-Jun-72 F-4E Sullivan/Francis USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Duc Nhu Toperczer Attributed to
SAM
27-Jun-72 F-4 USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Ngo Duy Thu Toperczer Not confirmed
05-Jul-72 F-4E Elander/Logan USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Ha Vinh Thanh Air Int
05-Jul-72 F-4E Spenser/Seek USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Tien Sam Michel
08-Jul-72 F-4E Ross/Imaye USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Dang Ngoc Ngu Michel
10-Jul-72 F-4J Randall/Masterson USN MiG-17
Cannon N. Vietnam Han Vinh Tuong Toperczer Possibly
MiG-21
24-Jul-72 F-4E Hodnett/Fallert USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Tien Sam Hobson
24-Jul-72 F-4 MiG-21
N. Vietnam Ha Vinh Thanh Toperczer Not confirmed
24-Jul-72 F-4 MiG-21
N. Vietnam Le Thanh Dao Toperczer Not confirmed
24-Jul-72 F-4 MiG-21
N. Vietnam Trong Ton Toperczer Not confirmed
29-Jul-72 F-4E Kula/Matsui USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam Nguyen Tien Sam Michel
29-Jul-72 F-105G Coady/Murphy USAF F-105G
AIM-9 USA Hobson Own missile
30-Jul-72 F-4E Brooks/McAdams USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Duc Soat Hobson
26-Aug-72 F-4J Cordova/Borders USMC MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Duc Soat
09-Sep-72 F-4E Dalecky/Murphy USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Do Van Lanh Toperczer Attributed to
AAA
11-Sep-72 F-4D Ratzlaff/Heeren USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Le Thanh Dao Michel
12-Sep-72 F-4E Zuberbuhler/McMurray USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Tien Sam Michel
01-Oct-72 F-4D USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Michel Not confirmed
05-Oct-72 F-4D Lewis/Alpers USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Tien Sam Toperczer
06-Oct-72 F-4E Anderson/Latella USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Van Nghia Toperczer Attributed to
SAM
12-Oct-72 F-4D Young/Brunson USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Nguyen Duc Soat Michel
23-Dec-72 F-4 MiG-21
N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
23-Dec-72 F-4 MiG-21
N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
23-Dec-72 F-4 MiG-21
N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
23-Dec-72 F-4 MiG-21
N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Toperczer Not confirmed
27-Dec-72 B-52 Morris+6 USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Pham Tuan Toperczer Attributed to
SAM
27-Dec-72 F-4E Anderson/Ward USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Tran Viet Michel
27-Dec-72 F-4E Jefcoat/Trimble USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Tran Viet Michel
27-Dec-72 F-4E USAF MiG-21
N. Vietnam Tran Viet Toperczer Not confirmed
28-Dec-72 B-52 Lewis USAF MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam Vu Xuan Thieu Toperczer Attributed to
SAM
28-Dec-72 RA-5C Agnew/Haifley USN MiG-21
Atoll N. Vietnam 921 Regiment Dorr

also Republic Aircraft's F-105 Thunderchief, Better Known as the Thud,
Was the Air Force's Warhorse in Vietnam
at http://www.thehistorynet.com/Vietnam...962%5Ftext.htm
(might be down)

see those books too:
Rasimus, Ed. (he is at rec.aviation.military)
When thunder rolled: an F-105 pilot over North Vietnam.
Smithsonian Books, 2003. ISBN: 1588341038.
(Ballantine Books, 2004, ISBN: 0891418547)

McCarthy, Donald.
USAF F-4 and F-105: MiG killers of the Vietnam War, 1965-1973.
Schiffer Military History, 2005. ISBN:0764322567.

Jenkins, Dennis.
F-105 Thunderchief: workhorse of the Vietnam War.
McGraw-Hill, 2000. ISBN: 0071355111.

Campbell, John.; Hill, Mike.
Roll call: THUD : a photographic record of the F-105 Thunderchief.
Schiffer Pub., 1996. ISBN:0764300628.

Lenski, Albert.
Magic 100: the story of an F-105, 100 combat mission tour, NVN '67.
Turner Pub., 1995. ISBN:1563112221.


A-4

Peacock, Lindsay T.
A-4 Skyhawk.
Osprey, 1987. ISBN: 085045817X.

Kinzey, Bert.
A-4 Skyhawk.
Airlife Pub., 1989. ISBN: 083068042X.
(TAB Books, 1989. ISBN:1853106097)

Kinzey, Bert; Leader, Ray.
Colorful U.S. Navy A-4 Skyhawks.
Tab Books, 1990. ISBN: 083064542X.
(Tab, 1991, ISBN:1853106259)

Kilduff, Peter.
Douglas A-4 Skyhawk.
Osprey Pub. (Motorbooks International), 1983. ISBN:0850455294.

Ward, Richard; McDowell, Ernest.
McDonnell-Douglas A-4A/L Skyhawk, in USN-US Marine Corps-Royal
Australian Navy & Royal New Zealand Air Force service.
Arco Pub. Co., 1972. ISBN:0668023139.

Winchester, Jim.
A-4 Skyhawk: 'Heinemann's hot rod'.
Pen & Sword Aviation, 2005. ISBN:1844150852.
(Airlife, 2003. ISBN: 1840373474)

Chesneau, Roger.
Skyhawk.
Linewrights, 1986. ISBN:0946958165.

Elward, Brad.
McDonnell Douglas A-4 Skyhawk.
Crowood, 2000. ISBN:1861263406.

Ginter, Steve; Albright, Steven.
USMC / USMCR / USNR Douglas A-4A/B Skyhawk /
S. Ginter, 2002. ISBN:0942612507.

Ginter, Steve.
Douglas A-4E/F Skyhawk in navy service /
S. Ginter, 2001. ISBN:0942612515.

Gann, Harry.
The Douglas A-4 Skyhawk.
Profile Publications Ltd., 1966.

Munson, Kenneth.
McDonnell Douglas A-4 Skyhawk.

Mike
in memory of Col. Lee Volet (USAF, Ret.)