FLARM

Hi

This summer season in Australia has seen our first use of FLARM
anti-collision system for gliders.
http://www.flarm.com/index_en.html
and
http://www.rf-developments.com/page008.html
(the local manufacturer for Australia)

It would seem that FLARM is becoming very rapidly accepted here in
Australia (my club now has all club gliders and tugs and all but a
couple of private gliders and tugs) fitted. I know that in continental
Europe (where FLARM originated) it is also very widespread.

I am interested in how the UK and US gliding fraternity feel about it -
and whether FLARM may also be of interest to the micro/ultralight and
hang glider fraternity.

Robert

Currently in the UK there is little or no interest
in FLARM, I know of no glider that has it fitted and
long may it remain so.
The cockpit area in gliders is cluttered enough and
battery life with current units is unacceptable.

At 04:18 05 March 2006, Jcarlyle wrote:
Thanks for the info, Marc. Do you know what kind of
time frame is
envisioned for us to see a quantity produced ADS-B
UATS? And, do you
think it will be a low current drain device?

-John

Don Johnstone wrote:
Currently in the UK there is little or no interest
in FLARM, I know of no glider that has it fitted and
long may it remain so.
The cockpit area in gliders is cluttered enough and
battery life with current units is unacceptable.

As reasons for not adopting FLARM, I have to disagree with you on both
counts - and then add some additional food for thought.

I have been flying with FLARM in my glider since Nov last year (when it
was introduced at the New South Wales State comps). My observations are

1) Cockpit clutter

It is very easy to fit and does not clutter up the cockpit. Mine sits on
the sloping side of the instrument panel (compete with a black
polystyrene 'hat' that shades it from the very strong Aussie sun and
also shades its front display, making that more visible in strong sunlight).

In terms of cockpit workload and 'noise' clutter, it was very easy to
include the FLARM in my standard lookout scan and as the alarm tone
sounds as part of the power on self test, so learning that came quickly.


2) Battery life

This is not adversely affected by FLARM (provided your glider has well
charged and well cared for batteries). It consumes 50ma so that is
hardly a huge drain on a battery.


3) Usage

At the NSW state comps in Nov 2005 (the first major usage of FLARM in
Australia), almost every pilot (there were over 60 gliders competing)
admitted that FLARM alerted him/her at least once to nearby glider
traffic BEFORE it was seen. FLARM was seen as a very useful supplement
to a good lookout. The pilots' meeting voted overwhelmingly in favour of
a motion requesting the GFA to mandate FLARM for all gliding
competitions in Australia.

Since that comp, I have been flying at a club where all the gliders
(club and private) and tugs are now FLARM equipped. Conscious that we
cannot allow our members to relax their lookout habits, the Instructor
Panel has introduced a small training package for pilots new to FLARM,
that provides basic operation info and guidelines for using it.

(See http://www.ddsc.org.au/documents/man...ng%20FLARM.pdf for this
document).

As it is fitted in all our two seat trainers, new pilots are starting
off with FLARM.

4) Other FLARM benefits

It is worth noting that FLARM is an IGC type logger (although _NOT_ IGC
approved, so it cannot be used for badge/record claims) and produces
NMEA sentences on a serial output. Last week I wired up a friend's
glider to use the FLARM NMEA output as input to an iPAQ running mobile
SeeYou (which supports FLARM).

With FLARMs in all club gliders and desktop SeeYou on the club
computers, we are making it very easy for pilots to start using modern
analysis tools to help improve their cross country soaring skills.
There's the side benefit that all their flights can be uploaded to the
Online Comp (the GFA runs it's decentralised competition online at this
site).


Finally, it is worth remembering that the major collision risk to
gliders is other gliders (and glider tugs). In Australia, there has
never been a collision between a glider and a non gliding involved
aircraft (I don't know about the rest of the world, but I suspect the
stats to be similar) and so FLARM certainly addresses the major
collision risk we face here.

We had a mid air collision with one fatality last year in Victoria. At
the Qld State comps (immediately prior to the NSW comps mentioned
above), there were five reported air miss incidents (and bar talk
suggested there were at least another 6). At the NSW state comps were
FLARM was introduced, there were no such reports.

We pay about AU$2,000 for a parachute to use _if_ we are alive and
conscious after a mid air collision. Paying about AU$700 for a gadget
that warns you of impending collisions in time to avoid them is a "no
brainer".

I would dearly love to see GA, ultra/micro lights and hang gliders
adopts FLARM. There is an active hang gliding club near my gliding club
and I know from experience how hard these can be to see! The ozFLARM
manufacturer is working on an ADS-B (in/out) add-on that would provide
FLARM capability to ADS-B units - and also an ADS-B (in only) to FLARM.
Once ADS-B is more widespread, I will certainly look to add that to my
FLARM.

At 16:30 05 March 2006, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:
This reply is typical of Don, but is not representative
of UK thinking.
At a nominal 55mA current drain, this should not significantly
affect
Battery life. If Don had ever seen a FLARM display
he might not utter
such ill-informed opinions about cluttering the cockpit.

True, there are, AFAIK, no FLARM installations in UK,


Sorry Tim, I think that what I said is truly representative
of the thinking of UK glider pilots. I have yet to
speak to any who have a burning desire to install FLARM,
or indeed transponders.
I bet you a new FLARM unit that I could find more pilots
who don't want FLARM or who don't care than you can
find pilots that desire it.

I do not have room on my panel for any additional display

The reasons for my view may not be representative of
UK thinking, but I think you would have to admit that
there is general apathy surrounding FLARM in the UK.

At 16:30 05 March 2006, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:
This reply is typical of Don, but is not representative
of UK thinking.
At a nominal 55mA current drain, this should not significantly
affect
Battery life. If Don had ever seen a FLARM display
he might not utter
such ill-informed opinions about cluttering the cockpit.

True, there are, AFAIK, no FLARM installations in UK,


Sorry Tim, I think that what I said is truly representative
of the thinking of UK glider pilots. I have yet to
speak to any who have a burning desire to install FLARM,
or indeed transponders.
I bet you a new FLARM unit that I could find more pilots
who don't want FLARM or who don't care than you can
find pilots that desire it.

I do not have room on my panel for any additional display

The reasons for my view may not be representative of
UK thinking, but I think you would have to admit that
there is general apathy surrounding FLARM in the UK.

Who is pushing for this anyway, could it be the manufacturers/
suppliers of said items perchance? Will there be an
approved list with the most economical excluded?

Don Johnstone wrote:

Who is pushing for this anyway, could it be the manufacturers/
suppliers of said items perchance?

This I can answer. In Switzerland we had a couple of glider midairs over
the last years, some of them with fatal results. Triggered by this
experience, some glider pilots who happened to be electronics students
gathered and developed FLARM. The Swiss FOCA was very cooperative, and
many Swiss glider clubs ordered (and payed) FLARM units before it was
even working, which made the development possible. So, all in all, it
was a non-profit project initiated by some students and subsidized by
Swiss glider clubs. No ugly big money hungry company behind it.

I don't know whether it's become a profit company now, but I doubt they
make much money.

Stefan

I am a Nimbus 2C pilot from the same club as Robert H. who started this
thread.

It is great to see so much discussion about what is a serious issue, knowing
the risks of midair's.

LOOK OUT is still KING!

The units I have used at our club are small, don't seem to compromise
battery life, are easy to use and great to have as an aid.

I believe after thirty five plus years as a glider pilot, I kept good
lookout.

The Flarm finds all the gliders fitted with Flarm and quite a few I
certainly did not see. This is in the wide open skies of Australia, all be
it a fairly big club and private fleet at the DDSC club www.ddsc.org.au..

I have to admit our Nimbus is one of the very few not fitted at present at
the club, but this has more to do with partners and finance at present.

Don't know about the politics, litigation etc, but it certainly is one of
the best safety features after good training I have seen.

I am glad the origens of FLARM have come up because
it answers some of my questions. I have flown in the
southern Alps and their environment for flight is unlike
any I know of in the USA or Australia. Flying in the
southern Alps many days consists of HUNDREDS of gliders
flying below peak height in all directions throughout
a mountain range that has valleys and passes in all
directions. Flying out of St Auban last year we were
using wrecked gliders as landmarks for navigation.
Collision avoidance is a very high energy activity
in that airspace. Power traffic is virtually non-existant
in that airspace. The power people just fly high above
all the mountains and valleys.

Here in the USA our most common partners in the airspace
are power planes. Power planes have transponders.
I fly out of Minden, NV and for years had fairly regular
close encounters with power planes. Commercial planes
coming in and out of Reno would turn right at you,
your flight path goes accross standard flight paths
in and out of Reno. Military traffic was especially
scary with fighters and heavies just dropping out of
the cloud deck right on top of me or directly in my
flight path. Then I installed a transponder and my
experiences are very different. I monitor the air
traffic people while flying and am very impressed how
well they see me and warn power traffic of my presence.
Commercial planes know where I am and no longer turn
into me. If our paths will cross the power planes
alter their altitude.

As for people being worried about battery problems,
that is just whining. I fly with a radio, transponder,
encoder, Cambridge, and iPAQ using a 12 amp hour battery.
I have never had a problem flying up to six hours.
I take that back. I had a problem for a couple weeks
and it turned out to be a bad battery charger.

For the USA I really believe that installing a transponder
is the responsible thing to do for all air traffic.
Wings and Wheels sells a unit that sounds a lot like
the FLARM but recognizes transponders. It makes much
more sense to me to go with the technology that has
the largest installed base, equipment availability
and support.


At 12:48 06 March 2006, Bert Willing wrote:
Either you don't know what you are talking about (ever
seen the external
Flarm display?), or your panel is crap.

'Don Johnstone' wrote in message
...
I do not have room on my panel for any additional
display

"Guy Acheson" wrote in message
...
Here in the USA our most common partners in the airspace
are power planes. Power planes have transponders.
I fly out of Minden, NV and for years had fairly regular
close encounters with power planes. Commercial planes
coming in and out of Reno would turn right at you,
your flight path goes accross standard flight paths
in and out of Reno. Military traffic was especially
scary with fighters and heavies just dropping out of
the cloud deck right on top of me or directly in my
flight path. Then I installed a transponder and my
experiences are very different.

My experience, also flying out of Minden, NV, mirrors Guy's. Reno Approach
(ATC) even has a transponder code (0440) set aside for VFR glider use - - so
they can tell what type of traffic we are when they point us out as traffic
advisories to other aircraft. Besides the transponder, I also fly with a
TPAS (transponder passive alert system), the Proxalert R-5. This helps alert
me to the presence of transponder equipped aircraft even if they are not
talking to ATC.

In managing the inherent risks of flying, it's wise to do what you
reasonably can to be safe. At least for relatively busy areas like Minden, I
think it's almost criminal to *not* use a transponder. As to do so, puts all
those people in airliners more at risk of a collision with an "unmarked" and
hard to visually acquire glider.

bumper

I think Tim in his reply to my post highlighted the
biggest failing in FLARM, lack of interest by the majority.
Having a FLARM in your glider is totally useless unless
eveyone else has one in theirs, and the only way to
achieve that is by compulsion.
Anyone who thinks that the majority of pilots will
fit one voluntarily is deluding themselves.
Right now in most of the world FLARM is just a useless
expensive piece of electronics and unless fitting it
becomes compulsory it will go the same way as Betamax
video tapes.

In answer to Bert my panel is full of instruments which
are of some use to me.






At 13:42 06 March 2006, Guy Acheson wrote:
I am glad the origens of FLARM have come up because
it answers some of my questions. I have flown in the
southern Alps and their environment for flight is unlike
any I know of in the USA or Australia. Flying in the
southern Alps many days consists of HUNDREDS of gliders
flying below peak height in all directions throughout
a mountain range that has valleys and passes in all
directions. Flying out of St Auban last year we were
using wrecked gliders as landmarks for navigation.
Collision avoidance is a very high energy activity
in that airspace. Power traffic is virtually non-existant
in that airspace. The power people just fly high above
all the mountains and valleys.

Here in the USA our most common partners in the airspace
are power planes. Power planes have transponders.
I fly out of Minden, NV and for years had fairly regular
close encounters with power planes. Commercial planes
coming in and out of Reno would turn right at you,
your flight path goes accross standard flight paths
in and out of Reno. Military traffic was especially
scary with fighters and heavies just dropping out of
the cloud deck right on top of me or directly in my
flight path. Then I installed a transponder and my
experiences are very different. I monitor the air
traffic people while flying and am very impressed how
well they see me and warn power traffic of my presence.
Commercial planes know where I am and no longer turn
into me. If our paths will cross the power planes
alter their altitude.

As for people being worried about battery problems,
that is just whining. I fly with a radio, transponder,
encoder, Cambridge, and iPAQ using a 12 amp hour battery.
I have never had a problem flying up to six hours.
I take that back. I had a problem for a couple weeks
and it turned out to be a bad battery charger.

For the USA I really believe that installing a transponder
is the responsible thing to do for all air traffic.
Wings and Wheels sells a unit that sounds a lot like
the FLARM but recognizes transponders. It makes much
more sense to me to go with the technology that has
the largest installed base, equipment availability
and support.


At 12:48 06 March 2006, Bert Willing wrote:
Either you don't know what you are talking about (ever
seen the external
Flarm display?), or your panel is crap.

'Don Johnstone' wrote in message
...
I do not have room on my panel for any additional
display