"zero" versus "oscar" versus "sierra"

In article ,
emove (AJW) wrote:

Man, just call yourself oscar pop!

I've been told by people who have tried it that some controllers don't
like it. But maybe I'll give it a whirl and see how far I get.

rg

In article et,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...

No. The identifiers are identical but for the 0 and the S: N880P and
N88SP are both based at VNY.


Then you're just going to have to live with it. The letter O is not used in
identifiers to avoid confusion with zero.

One could just as easily decide that the number 0 is not used in
aircraft identifiers to avoid confusion with the letter O. Nothing
would actually have to change.

Are the aircraft the same type?

I don't think so, but the VNY controllers don't call out the aircraft
type. They always open with "November".

rg

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:35:58 -0800, Ron Garret
wrote:

Does anyone know what it
would take to try to make this case to the FAA to try to get them to
change their minds?

The short answer, I suspect, is no, never, not on your life.

I am continually irritated by the assumption that Zero and Capital O
are the same thing. I think it arises from two factors: first, that on
the manual typewriters of the 1940s and 1950s that many of us learned
to type on, there was no zero, so we managed by typing a capital O.

And second, the dial telephones of the same era had 10 numbers on
them, including zero, but the zero also meant O for Operator.

I suspect the reason the FAA came up with this strange rule is that a
large proportion of the population would read Oscar as "zero", to the
great confusion of reporting miscreant aircraft.

(I know what you mean about the confusion arising from a
similar-sounding designator. I fly out of Hampton NH airport, which is
on the same freq as Sanford ME. Over the radio, it's often hard to
know which airport is meant. And at Sanford there is a Cessna whose
tail number ends in the same three digits as the J-3 I fly. So I am
always careful to specify that I am Piper Cub XXX, or in many cases
simply "the Cub".)


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
the blog www.danford.net

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:19:56 -0600, "Dan Luke" wrote:

"SIERRA" is a failure as a phonetic letter and should be changed, IMO.
"SUGAR" was better, but it is too much of an oddball pronunciaton to be
successful internationally.

One of the worst! A Spanish speaker would presumably render it
SOO-harrr.

I learned the old phonetic alphabet, and when I began flying I found
that the term that stuck with me despite my best effort to abolish it
was Baker in lieu of Bravo. The FSS briefer would always correct me.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
the blog www.danford.net

"Cub Driver" wrote:
"SIERRA" is a failure as a phonetic letter and should be changed,
IMO.
"SUGAR" was better, but it is too much of an oddball pronunciaton to
be
successful internationally.

One of the worst! A Spanish speaker would presumably render it
SOO-harrr.

Nope; "g" is pronounced hard in Spanish when followed by "a". Spanish
speakers might have trouble with the "sh" sound, though.

I learned the old phonetic alphabet, and when I began flying I found
that the term that stuck with me despite my best effort to abolish it
was Baker in lieu of Bravo. The FSS briefer would always correct me.

A least you have an excuse! On two occasions I've said "october"
instead of "oscar."
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...

One could just as easily decide that the number 0 is not used in
aircraft identifiers to avoid confusion with the letter O. Nothing
would actually have to change.


One is not free to decide that. The letters I and O are not used for
aircraft registration in the US. FAR 47.15(b) would have to change.


§ 47.15 Identification number.

(b) A U.S. identification number may not exceed five symbols in addition
to
the prefix letter "N". These symbols may be all numbers (N10000), one to
four numbers and one suffix letter (N 1000A), or one to three numbers and
two suffix letters (N 100AB). The letters "I" and "O" may not be used. The
first zero in a number must always be preceded by at least one of the
numbers 1 through 9.



I don't think so, but the VNY controllers don't call out the aircraft
type. They always open with "November".


You are free to open with the type regardless what the controller does.

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...
In article et,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...

No. The identifiers are identical but for the 0 and the S: N880P and
N88SP are both based at VNY.


Then you're just going to have to live with it. The letter O is not used
in
identifiers to avoid confusion with zero. Are the aircraft the same
type?

I'm not sure. 880P is a Cirrus. I thought 88SP was a Cessna, but
Google says it's a King Air. I've never actually seen 88SP.

I would identify myself as "Cirrus 880P", adding the "cessna" helps other
pilots to identify you in heavy traffic anyway.


rg

In article ,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...

One could just as easily decide that the number 0 is not used in
aircraft identifiers to avoid confusion with the letter O. Nothing
would actually have to change.


One is not free to decide that. The letters I and O are not used for
aircraft registration in the US. FAR 47.15(b) would have to change.

Bummer.

I don't think so, but the VNY controllers don't call out the aircraft
type. They always open with "November".


You are free to open with the type regardless what the controller does.

Yes, but that's not the issue. The issue is what to do when both planes
are in the pattern you hear a controller issue an instruction to
"November eight eight syrah poppa...."

rg

"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...

Yes, but that's not the issue. The issue is what to do when both planes
are in the pattern you hear a controller issue an instruction to
"November eight eight syrah poppa...."


You say, "Say again".

Does anyone know what it would take to try to make this
case to the FAA to try to get them to change their minds?

rg

I'd say about 20 years ... to change the FAR.

I was flying out of Jefferson County Airport in Colorado around the time
that the T.V. show Mork and Mindy was popular. There was a fella who often
was in the pattern when I was who's callsign ended with 99. He would always
say "nano-nano" to acknowledge a call.

-Frank