ADIZ pilot's ticket revoked

Dave A. wrote:

It is only the FSS or DUATS weather report for that time that determines if
you are legally allowed to be flying based on your restrictions, whatever
they may be.

I'd say it's the fact of the actual weather at the time and place that you are
flying that determines whether you are legally allowed to be flying, regardless
of what FSS or DUAT says.

In some kind of legal proceeding, you might use the reports from FSS or DUAT to
substantiate that the weather is/was what you say, but it's the actual weather
conditions that determine whether your flying is legal.

Dave

In some kind of legal proceeding, you might use the reports from FSS or
DUAT to substantiate that the weather is/was what you say, but it's the
actual weather conditions that determine whether your flying is legal.

I agree, and I believe that is the point. I am told the reasons are
anecdotal. Bear in mind that I am passing the standing of the instructors
of my flight school.

Lawyers and pilot advocates look at how the FAA rules and how the FAA
interprets the regulations for those rules.

Based on the history of FAA rulings (the sole interpreter and judge of such
rules, similar to the FCC in authority) lawyers determine that the FAA does
in fact consider the regulation to mean that a pilot is required to check
with FSS or DUATS, give a tail number and use that interaction as proof in a
legal proceeding.

a random example I made up off the top of my head;

You land VFR in less than 3 miles visibility. This alerts an FAA
representative and he spot checks you for an IFR ticket.
You have none. The only recourse you have is the FAA's weather reporting
stations and did you check it.
The local news forecast is of no use because you can't prove you checked it
and it has no legal bearing on the situation even if you could prove it.

So the wording may no be there but that is cold comfort when you have your
license suspended with no recourse.

--
Dave A
Aging Student Pilot

-I can gather all the news I need
on the weather report-
"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1117119150.93476@sj-nntpcache-5...
Dave A. wrote:

It is only the FSS or DUATS weather report for that time that determines
if you are legally allowed to be flying based on your restrictions,
whatever they may be.

I'd say it's the fact of the actual weather at the time and place that you
are flying that determines whether you are legally allowed to be flying,
regardless of what FSS or DUAT says.



Dave

"Dave A." wrote in message
news:HEkle.274$zb.28@trndny02...
We are taught for the Oral exam that the only way you can prove you took
off
into legal minimums for VFR flight is to obtain a weather briefing from
the
FSS or DUATS.

How does FSS or DUATS know what the conditions are at the thousands of
airports without weather reporting?

It is only the FSS or DUATS weather report for that time that determines
if
you are legally allowed to be flying based on your restrictions, whatever
they may be.

Actual conditions outrank FSS or DUATS. Think about it.

Your local tower or TV station might tell you the weather is one thing,
but
if the FSS says it isn't you could be in violation.

I don't know what kind of documentation you are looking for, but I have
been
told that I will be wrong if I don't answer the question with the FAA
examiner this way.
--
Dave A
Aging Student Pilot

Actual conditions outrank FSS or DUATS. Think about it.

I did. Then I remembered lawyers.


--
Dave A
Aging Student Pilot

-I can gather all the news I need
on the weather report-


"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
...

"Dave A." wrote in message
news:HEkle.274$zb.28@trndny02...
We are taught for the Oral exam that the only way you can prove you took
off
into legal minimums for VFR flight is to obtain a weather briefing from
the
FSS or DUATS.

How does FSS or DUATS know what the conditions are at the thousands of
airports without weather reporting?

It is only the FSS or DUATS weather report for that time that determines
if
you are legally allowed to be flying based on your restrictions, whatever
they may be.



Your local tower or TV station might tell you the weather is one thing,
but
if the FSS says it isn't you could be in violation.

I don't know what kind of documentation you are looking for, but I have
been
told that I will be wrong if I don't answer the question with the FAA
examiner this way.
--
Dave A
Aging Student Pilot

"Dave A." wrote in message
news:fcwle.3544$zb.3181@trndny01...
Actual conditions outrank FSS or DUATS. Think about it.

I did. Then I remembered lawyers.

So you would launch if actual conditions were below minimums but FSS said
things were OK. Interesting, but not condusive to a long life.

--
Dave A
Aging Student Pilot

-I can gather all the news I need
on the weather report-

Dave Stadt wrote:

So you would launch if actual conditions were below minimums but FSS said
things were OK. Interesting, but not condusive to a long life.

I think he meant the other way 'round. When I was based at Kupper, the nearest
reporting station was Newark. Newark's on the coast and frequently has IMC when
Kupper is VFR. I remember an FAA inspector telling a safety meeting group that
we were technically illegal if we flew VFR when EWR was IFR. I don't think any
of us changed our habits as a result of that statement. I certainly didn't.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

In article x2xle.2405$Lb.1000@trndny05, George Patterson wrote:
Kupper is VFR. I remember an FAA inspector telling a safety meeting group that
we were technically illegal if we flew VFR when EWR was IFR. I don't think any
of us changed our habits as a result of that statement. I certainly didn't.

Well, quite possibly because the FAA inspector was technically wrong.
Whether you're legal VFR or not depends on the conditions at your point
in space and time, not what some weather station several miles away
might be reporting. Otherwise, the corollary of what the FAA inspector
says is that you are technically LEGAL if it's 200 and 1/2 so long as
EWR is reporting VFR.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

So you would launch if actual conditions were below minimums but FSS said
things were OK. Interesting, but not condusive to a long life.


No no, other way around.

--
Dave A
Aging Student Pilot

-I can gather all the news I need
on the weather report-

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
...

"Dave A." wrote in message
news:fcwle.3544$zb.3181@trndny01...
Actual conditions outrank FSS or DUATS. Think about it.

I did. Then I remembered lawyers.


--
Dave A
Aging Student Pilot

-I can gather all the news I need
on the weather report-

Well, quite possibly because the FAA inspector was technically wrong.
Whether you're legal VFR or not depends on the conditions at your point
in space and time, not what some weather station several miles away
might be reporting.

The question was, what is a legal briefing and where is it stated in the
regulations. If you take off in the conditions stated by George Patternson
you are technically flying illegal.

The philosophizing on the subject aside, all indications given by the FAA
is that the FSS and DUATS weather and NOTAMS are your only proof should
legal proceedings take place that you followed 91.103. Being that the FAA
is the regulatory body, they will impose the fine based on their judgments.





--
Dave A
Aging Student Pilot

-I can gather all the news I need
on the weather report-

"Dylan Smith" wrote in message
...
In article x2xle.2405$Lb.1000@trndny05, George Patterson wrote:
Kupper is VFR. I remember an FAA inspector telling a safety meeting group
that
we were technically illegal if we flew VFR when EWR was IFR. I don't
think any
of us changed our habits as a result of that statement. I certainly
didn't.

Otherwise, the corollary of what the FAA inspector
says is that you are technically LEGAL if it's 200 and 1/2 so long as
EWR is reporting VFR.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:x2xle.2405$Lb.1000@trndny05...
Dave Stadt wrote:

So you would launch if actual conditions were below minimums but FSS said
things were OK. Interesting, but not condusive to a long life.

I think he meant the other way 'round.

Thanks George, thought I was going crazy.


--
Dave A
Aging Student Pilot

-I can gather all the news I need
on the weather report-

When I was based at Kupper, the nearest
reporting station was Newark. Newark's on the coast and frequently has IMC
when Kupper is VFR. I remember an FAA inspector telling a safety meeting
group that we were technically illegal if we flew VFR when EWR was IFR. I
don't think any of us changed our habits as a result of that statement. I
certainly didn't.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.