Backlit panel

cavelamb wrote:
Dan wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
Dan wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
Dan wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel
overlay.
The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a
plastic
overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by
engraving the opaque layer.

On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for
grain of rice (well duh!) light bulbs.

The effect was quite stunning.

So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the
overlay?


Thanks,

Richard


I use white plexiglass. Paint the face and edges black and have
it engraved or engrave it then use a roller to paint the face and
sides.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Ok, so other than good intentions and great karma, what kept the paint
out of the lettering?

If you paint it before engraving you won't have that problem.
Using a roller to paint after you engrave means very little, if any
paint gets into the lettering. I used a rubber roller like engravers
use. I prefer the paint first method, but sometimes you need to
repaint after adding engraving or damaged paint.

I might mention painting the back of the plastic prevents light
leaks.

For the truly patient/crazy you can route grooves in the back for
wiring. The number of lights required depends on the size of the
panel and embedded wiring means you only have 2 wires hanging out
the back.

Military/commercial lighted panels have a little coaxial connector
on the back that presses into a socket when you mount the panel. If
you ever see one of this type of panel you'll notice a little plus
sign on the front. The connector is directly behind it. Should
lighting fail you can press there to see if the connection is bad.
Older panels had light assemblies that screwed through the panel
from the front.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Thanks, Dan.
That's a possibility.

The comm shops in USAF units was authorized an engraver for
intercom boxes face plates since the boxes had a bunch of pull-on
volume controls and had to be re-labeled for the specific location on
the aircraft or specific aircraft. Guess what? They just swapped out
face plates when replacing the boxes.

Another option you might try is the black on white plastic
trophy/engraving shops use for name plates. Granted it's thinner than
the plates we used which were 3/8" thick or so. I suppose an
annunciator light or illuminated tail number plate can be made if you
make a bezel to hold it with the lamps behind.

You might also consider LED instead of incandescent.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Yeah, I remember fondly the side panels with all the cool military toys.
Boy, those were the days.

LED already considered. And approved, of course!

One design flaw so far is isolating some areas so that annunciators
don't bleed over into the rest of the panel.

I think that problem can be addressed by milling out the back plastic
but leaving an overlay but obviously won't work with a painted panel.

That's kinda why I was thinking of a thin plastic overlay.

The back-light panel can then be pieced together as needed but still
present a smooth unbroken surface.

I'm guessing something .008 to .016 thick(?) for readability of the
engraved parts.


With contrast the thickness is irrelevant in daylight. Think of name
tags and placards you have seen engraved on plastic. The clarity of the
engraving at night is more a function of line width and lettering size.

As far as annunciators I have taken aluminum, bakelite and plastic
blocks roughly 1/4" thicker than is needed for whatever lamp or LED
requires. Picture a square or rectangle a little bigger than the
annunciator with the center milled out to just under the size of the
legend. This allows the light to illuminate the back of the legend. I
then rabbit out inside a little deeper than the thickness of the legend
which can be glued in place. You can also make a block of annunciators
by this method using a bigger block of plastic with several holes milled
out.

For caution lights I have used red or orange plexiglass. I have the
legend engraved then paint in the letters in black. This is easier than
it sounds. I use model airplane paint, paint in the letters then
carefully wipe the excess off the face. For best results I use a thin
sheet of translucent plastic behind the legend. For the life of me I
can't recall what the plastic sheet is called, but I have bought it in
craft and office supply stores.

I have found the local glass supply here will only order coloured
plexiglass in full 4 x 8 foot sheets so I buy smaller sizes from e-bay.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

cavelamb wrote:
Dan wrote:
Orval Fairbairn wrote:
In article ,
cavelamb wrote:

I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel
overlay.
The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a
plastic
overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by
engraving the opaque layer.

On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for grain
of rice (well duh!) light bulbs.

The effect was quite stunning.

So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the
overlay?


Thanks,

Richard

If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the
grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted
bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of
the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the
cutting/engraving operations. The front face can be left whit or
painted in your desired color.


White plexiglass diffuses and spreads the light more evenly than
clear. One nice thing about LED illumination is you can install both
red and white LED so you can either make illumination switchable or
you can change you mind later with minimum wiring problems.

For the truly creative use blue-green LED so you can play special
ops with NVG.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Kool! LOL.

But the red/white back-light idea already crossed my mind.
I hadn't thought of the special ops angle tho.

I spent 14 years in special ops. When everything started going NVG
compatible things got strange. Interiors were painted flat black and
lighting included blue-green flood lamps, C-4 lights and stuff like that
there.

Some of the assorted lamps in earlier tests were so bright in NVG
the area around them would be washed out and unreadable.

As for flat black interiors let me tell you sitting in the sun in
Florida things got HOT.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Dan wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
Dan wrote:
Orval Fairbairn wrote:
In article ,
cavelamb wrote:

I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel
overlay.
The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a
plastic
overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by
engraving the opaque layer.

On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for grain
of rice (well duh!) light bulbs.

The effect was quite stunning.

So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the
overlay?


Thanks,

Richard

If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the
grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted
bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides
of the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the
cutting/engraving operations. The front face can be left whit or
painted in your desired color.


White plexiglass diffuses and spreads the light more evenly than
clear. One nice thing about LED illumination is you can install both
red and white LED so you can either make illumination switchable or
you can change you mind later with minimum wiring problems.

For the truly creative use blue-green LED so you can play special
ops with NVG.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Kool! LOL.

But the red/white back-light idea already crossed my mind.
I hadn't thought of the special ops angle tho.

I spent 14 years in special ops. When everything started going NVG
compatible things got strange. Interiors were painted flat black and
lighting included blue-green flood lamps, C-4 lights and stuff like that
there.

Some of the assorted lamps in earlier tests were so bright in NVG the
area around them would be washed out and unreadable.

As for flat black interiors let me tell you sitting in the sun in
Florida things got HOT.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired



Well, don gone it, you are supposed to be sitting there at night!

Hiding in flat black in daytime seems a little strange...


Richard

cavelamb wrote:
Dan wrote:
cavelamb wrote:
Dan wrote:
Orval Fairbairn wrote:
In article ,
cavelamb wrote:

I remember Linda Rice's Lockheed had a really cool backlit panel
overlay.
The panel itself was heavy aluminum sheet, but then they added a
plastic
overlay that had an opaque cover. Legends and labeling was done by
engraving the opaque layer.

On the back side of the there were little cavities carved for
grain of rice (well duh!) light bulbs.

The effect was quite stunning.

So does anybody know where to find this kind of plastic for the
overlay?


Thanks,

Richard

If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the
grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an
inverted bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting
both sides of the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before
the cutting/engraving operations. The front face can be left whit
or painted in your desired color.


White plexiglass diffuses and spreads the light more evenly than
clear. One nice thing about LED illumination is you can install
both red and white LED so you can either make illumination
switchable or you can change you mind later with minimum wiring
problems.

For the truly creative use blue-green LED so you can play special
ops with NVG.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Kool! LOL.

But the red/white back-light idea already crossed my mind.
I hadn't thought of the special ops angle tho.

I spent 14 years in special ops. When everything started going NVG
compatible things got strange. Interiors were painted flat black and
lighting included blue-green flood lamps, C-4 lights and stuff like
that there.

Some of the assorted lamps in earlier tests were so bright in NVG
the area around them would be washed out and unreadable.

As for flat black interiors let me tell you sitting in the sun in
Florida things got HOT.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired



Well, don gone it, you are supposed to be sitting there at night!

Hiding in flat black in daytime seems a little strange...


Richard

They flew at night and got repaired during daytime. They also flew
day missions.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news_r_fairbairn-
If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the
grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted
bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of
the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the cutting/engraving
operations. The front face can be left whit or painted in your desired
color.

--



Orval is on the right track.

But for best results, use clear plexiglas, coat both sides of it white for
better internal light transmission. Then, coat both sides of it black, to
stop extraneous light. Bevel or reverse-bevel the edges,, depending on the
effect yu require/desire. Engrave through the top black /white layer into
clear plexi. You CAN use white plexi for this, but you will rquire so much
more light (numbers of lights, at many places) to achieve the illumination
and readability at night that you desire, as most white plexi absorbs a
great deal of the light - it just isn't as translucent as it seems,
especially being edge-lighted..

As for the "name-tag" material, the white inside in MOST oif that stuff is
opaque, and it is of such differing quality and material from various
manufacturers as to be a literal crap-shoot.

Flash

Flash wrote:
"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news_r_fairbairn-
If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the
grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted
bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of
the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the cutting/engraving
operations. The front face can be left whit or painted in your desired
color.

--



Orval is on the right track.

But for best results, use clear plexiglas, coat both sides of it white for
better internal light transmission. Then, coat both sides of it black, to
stop extraneous light. Bevel or reverse-bevel the edges,, depending on the
effect yu require/desire. Engrave through the top black /white layer into
clear plexi. You CAN use white plexi for this, but you will rquire so much
more light (numbers of lights, at many places) to achieve the illumination
and readability at night that you desire, as most white plexi absorbs a
great deal of the light - it just isn't as translucent as it seems,
especially being edge-lighted..

As for the "name-tag" material, the white inside in MOST oif that stuff is
opaque, and it is of such differing quality and material from various
manufacturers as to be a literal crap-shoot.

Flash



Maybe I have just had good luck with "name tag" material. As for
white plexiglass I never suggested opaque white although there are
varying degrees of translucence. Bear in mind any engraved plate used
for switches or similar don't have to be all that bright. It's all
relative to ambient lighting. An exception might be a panel that is
normally in shadow in daylight ops.

As for engraved plates there is one more idea. It's something I have
never tried myself. I have disassembled internally illuminated military
engine and pressure indicators. Many of them had 2 or more 328 sized
lamps. The one inch round gauges had 2 lamps and the 2 inch round
engine/fuel etc had 2 or 3. What they had in common was a disc thick
enough to accept the lamp, the proper number of holes equally spaced ina
circle and a centre hole for the pointer shaft. The instrument face was
constructed one of two ways; either the face was silk screened directly
onto the aforementioned disc or another, thinner disc.

The round indicator bodies are brass so if you want to see what I
mean see if you can find an inoperative one on which to perform an
autopsy. I used to get the 1 inch ones with burned out bulbs, but
working movements, just for the synchro inside.

Your suggestion for using clear plexiglass might work with silk
screened faces. I have never tried it since the plates I have made were
all one offs or so.

I have never used plexiglass instrument illumination so I have
nothing to say in the matter. A habit I picked up in the military is a
preference for internally illuminated indicators when possible. The
major drawback to that is the connectors for military instruments such
as clocks, g-meters and pitot-static instruments costs around $80.

I suggest anyone wanting to try anything along these lines should
obtain various plastics in various colours and thicknesses and haul off
and experiment.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Dan wrote:
Flash wrote:
"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news_r_fairbairn-
If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the
grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted
bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of
the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the cutting/engraving
operations. The front face can be left whit or painted in your desired
color.

--



Orval is on the right track.

But for best results, use clear plexiglas, coat both sides of it white
for better internal light transmission. Then, coat both sides of it
black, to stop extraneous light. Bevel or reverse-bevel the edges,,
depending on the effect yu require/desire. Engrave through the top
black /white layer into clear plexi. You CAN use white plexi for
this, but you will rquire so much more light (numbers of lights, at
many places) to achieve the illumination and readability at night that
you desire, as most white plexi absorbs a great deal of the light - it
just isn't as translucent as it seems, especially being edge-lighted..

As for the "name-tag" material, the white inside in MOST oif that
stuff is opaque, and it is of such differing quality and material from
various manufacturers as to be a literal crap-shoot.

Flash


Maybe I have just had good luck with "name tag" material. As for white
plexiglass I never suggested opaque white although there are varying
degrees of translucence. Bear in mind any engraved plate used for
switches or similar don't have to be all that bright. It's all relative
to ambient lighting. An exception might be a panel that is normally in
shadow in daylight ops.

As for engraved plates there is one more idea. It's something I have
never tried myself. I have disassembled internally illuminated military
engine and pressure indicators. Many of them had 2 or more 328 sized
lamps. The one inch round gauges had 2 lamps and the 2 inch round
engine/fuel etc had 2 or 3. What they had in common was a disc thick
enough to accept the lamp, the proper number of holes equally spaced ina
circle and a centre hole for the pointer shaft. The instrument face was
constructed one of two ways; either the face was silk screened directly
onto the aforementioned disc or another, thinner disc.

The round indicator bodies are brass so if you want to see what I mean
see if you can find an inoperative one on which to perform an autopsy. I
used to get the 1 inch ones with burned out bulbs, but working
movements, just for the synchro inside.

Your suggestion for using clear plexiglass might work with silk
screened faces. I have never tried it since the plates I have made were
all one offs or so.

I have never used plexiglass instrument illumination so I have nothing
to say in the matter. A habit I picked up in the military is a
preference for internally illuminated indicators when possible. The
major drawback to that is the connectors for military instruments such
as clocks, g-meters and pitot-static instruments costs around $80.

I suggest anyone wanting to try anything along these lines should
obtain various plastics in various colours and thicknesses and haul off
and experiment.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Well, for what it's worth, I bought the boat today, so this project is a go.

I think the annunciator question resolved itself as being impractical as I
had envisioned it. So it will probably just be a seperate panel with a stack of
back-lit blocks placed through the panel.

As for the rest; switch labels, panel legends, etc, I remember seeing some
translucent white in the scrap box at the Plastic Shoppe. I'll get some
small pieces and of that and some clear Lexan and start experimenting with them.

Thanks,


Richard

cavelamb wrote:
Dan wrote:
Flash wrote:
"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news_r_fairbairn-
If you wish to be more up-to-date, use red LEDs instead of the
grain-of-wheat bulbs. You CAN use clear plexiglass, with an inverted
bevel at the instrument holes. I would suggest painting both sides of
the plexiglass white, to contain the light, before the
cutting/engraving
operations. The front face can be left whit or painted in your desired
color.

--



Orval is on the right track.

But for best results, use clear plexiglas, coat both sides of it
white for better internal light transmission. Then, coat both sides
of it black, to stop extraneous light. Bevel or reverse-bevel the
edges,, depending on the effect yu require/desire. Engrave through
the top black /white layer into clear plexi. You CAN use white plexi
for this, but you will rquire so much more light (numbers of lights,
at many places) to achieve the illumination and readability at night
that you desire, as most white plexi absorbs a great deal of the
light - it just isn't as translucent as it seems, especially being
edge-lighted..

As for the "name-tag" material, the white inside in MOST oif that
stuff is opaque, and it is of such differing quality and material
from various manufacturers as to be a literal crap-shoot.

Flash


Maybe I have just had good luck with "name tag" material. As for
white plexiglass I never suggested opaque white although there are
varying degrees of translucence. Bear in mind any engraved plate used
for switches or similar don't have to be all that bright. It's all
relative to ambient lighting. An exception might be a panel that is
normally in shadow in daylight ops.

As for engraved plates there is one more idea. It's something I have
never tried myself. I have disassembled internally illuminated
military engine and pressure indicators. Many of them had 2 or more
328 sized lamps. The one inch round gauges had 2 lamps and the 2 inch
round engine/fuel etc had 2 or 3. What they had in common was a disc
thick enough to accept the lamp, the proper number of holes equally
spaced ina circle and a centre hole for the pointer shaft. The
instrument face was constructed one of two ways; either the face was
silk screened directly onto the aforementioned disc or another,
thinner disc.

The round indicator bodies are brass so if you want to see what I
mean see if you can find an inoperative one on which to perform an
autopsy. I used to get the 1 inch ones with burned out bulbs, but
working movements, just for the synchro inside.

Your suggestion for using clear plexiglass might work with silk
screened faces. I have never tried it since the plates I have made
were all one offs or so.

I have never used plexiglass instrument illumination so I have
nothing to say in the matter. A habit I picked up in the military is a
preference for internally illuminated indicators when possible. The
major drawback to that is the connectors for military instruments such
as clocks, g-meters and pitot-static instruments costs around $80.

I suggest anyone wanting to try anything along these lines should
obtain various plastics in various colours and thicknesses and haul
off and experiment.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


Well, for what it's worth, I bought the boat today, so this project is a
go.

I think the annunciator question resolved itself as being impractical as I
had envisioned it. So it will probably just be a seperate panel with a
stack of back-lit blocks placed through the panel.

As for the rest; switch labels, panel legends, etc, I remember seeing
some translucent white in the scrap box at the Plastic Shoppe. I'll get
some
small pieces and of that and some clear Lexan and start experimenting
with them.

Thanks,


Richard

Good luck. Let us know what happens.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

The lexan won't machine real well. Look for Plexiglas (acrylic) bits and sheet...

"cavelamb" wrote in message ...


Well, for what it's worth, I bought the boat today, so this project is a go.

I think the annunciator question resolved itself as being impractical as I
had envisioned it. So it will probably just be a seperate panel with a stack of
back-lit blocks placed through the panel.

As for the rest; switch labels, panel legends, etc, I remember seeing some
translucent white in the scrap box at the Plastic Shoppe. I'll get some
small pieces and of that and some clear Lexan and start experimenting with them.

Thanks,


Richard

Dan D wrote:
The lexan won't machine real well. Look for Plexiglas (acrylic) bits and
sheet...

"cavelamb" wrote in message
...


Well, for what it's worth, I bought the boat today, so this project is
a go.

I think the annunciator question resolved itself as being impractical
as I
had envisioned it. So it will probably just be a seperate panel with
a stack of back-lit blocks placed through the panel.

As for the rest; switch labels, panel legends, etc, I remember seeing
some translucent white in the scrap box at the Plastic Shoppe. I'll
get some
small pieces and of that and some clear Lexan and start experimenting
with them.

Thanks,


Richard

oops...

Ok, thanks