BD-5 historical questions

I'm writing a general Wikipedia article on the BD-5 (rewriting
actually) and I'm trying to re-create the story. My interest is
primarily from a "Popular someting" or "something Mechanics" magazine
(currently at my parents house, I'll see if I can get it over the
holidays - I don't think it was either of the "big two") article that
made me fall in love with the plane.

I've read many articles on the topic, looked over cutaways, and read
some of the flamefests here. Many minor details still seem to be
missing, however, and I'd like to clear some of these up. Sources would
be GREATLY appreciated:

1) when was the -5 first announced? 68 seems to be the number, but I've
seen 69 and 71 as well.
2) what was the original planned ship date?
3) can someone give me a rundown of the engine models? I seem to
remember the article mentioning a version of the VW bug motor being
used, possibly as an option?
4) what was the problem with the original V tail? I believe the
magazine article I read referred to the V-tail version AS the A and B
(with the wings changed, as in the later A/B), is this correct?
.... and at what point did they change it to the later design?
5) am I right in reading that the BD-5D was a pre-built FAR'ed version
of the kit?
...if so when did these plans start?
... and was Rutan brought in specifically for this part of the
project?
6) when did work on the BD-5J start?
... was this primarily Rutan's work?
7) when did the kits actually start shipping? Yes, even in partial
form...

8) I have come across a claim about something like a
one-crash-per-flight-hour figure. Why such a high rate? One person (a
local friend) mentioned something about the high thrust line making
landings difficult (more power, nose down), while a thread here
mentioned a 100mph landing speed for the A models, and that the first
four A's crashed. I have also seen a breakdown of every -5J, and it
does indeed have lots of accidents, but it is not clear if these are
being added in or not.
.... so any detail here would be appreciated.

Much of the flamage has to do with people losing their deposits when
the company died. However there are conflicting statements:

9) were the deposits supposedly placed in escrow?
10) I have seen conflicting claims about the "completeness" of the kits
as received. Some suggest it was just the drivetrain missing, others
that large parts of the kit were missing.

And one performance question:

11) The magazine article claimed a 210 mph cruise (max?) for the A
model. I realize that it will be difficult to compare, but what sorts
of speeds do people get with the B's with the larger (Honda typically)
engines?

Any answers would be greatly appreciated! Please, no second hand info!
"I seem to remember the date being..." is ok, but "I heard about a guy
that got a kit and..." is NOT.

Thanks! And sorry for being so demanding, but I'd really like to avoid
a flame fest.

Maury

I'm sure if you were to contact Juan Jiminez you'll be able to learn
much of what you want to know. He's well known as being the local BD5-J
expert. What he doesn't know or can tell you about the BD5 isn't worth
knowing...

I don't have his email address but you might do a Google search in RAH
for his past posts to get an idea of the depth of his knowledge and
abilitys.

John

Maury Markowitz wrote:
I'm writing a general Wikipedia article on the BD-5 (rewriting
actually) and I'm trying to re-create the story. My interest is
primarily from a "Popular someting" or "something Mechanics" magazine
(currently at my parents house, I'll see if I can get it over the
holidays - I don't think it was either of the "big two") article that
made me fall in love with the plane.

I've read many articles on the topic, looked over cutaways, and read
some of the flamefests here. Many minor details still seem to be
missing, however, and I'd like to clear some of these up. Sources would
be GREATLY appreciated:

1) when was the -5 first announced? 68 seems to be the number, but I've
seen 69 and 71 as well.
2) what was the original planned ship date?
3) can someone give me a rundown of the engine models? I seem to
remember the article mentioning a version of the VW bug motor being
used, possibly as an option?
4) what was the problem with the original V tail? I believe the
magazine article I read referred to the V-tail version AS the A and B
(with the wings changed, as in the later A/B), is this correct?
... and at what point did they change it to the later design?
5) am I right in reading that the BD-5D was a pre-built FAR'ed version
of the kit?
...if so when did these plans start?
... and was Rutan brought in specifically for this part of the
project?
6) when did work on the BD-5J start?
... was this primarily Rutan's work?
7) when did the kits actually start shipping? Yes, even in partial
form...

8) I have come across a claim about something like a
one-crash-per-flight-hour figure. Why such a high rate? One person (a
local friend) mentioned something about the high thrust line making
landings difficult (more power, nose down), while a thread here
mentioned a 100mph landing speed for the A models, and that the first
four A's crashed. I have also seen a breakdown of every -5J, and it
does indeed have lots of accidents, but it is not clear if these are
being added in or not.
... so any detail here would be appreciated.

Much of the flamage has to do with people losing their deposits when
the company died. However there are conflicting statements:

9) were the deposits supposedly placed in escrow?
10) I have seen conflicting claims about the "completeness" of the kits
as received. Some suggest it was just the drivetrain missing, others
that large parts of the kit were missing.

And one performance question:

11) The magazine article claimed a 210 mph cruise (max?) for the A
model. I realize that it will be difficult to compare, but what sorts
of speeds do people get with the B's with the larger (Honda typically)
engines?

Any answers would be greatly appreciated! Please, no second hand info!
"I seem to remember the date being..." is ok, but "I heard about a guy
that got a kit and..." is NOT.

Thanks! And sorry for being so demanding, but I'd really like to avoid
a flame fest.

Maury

You might try contacting the EAA Museum and Library in Oshkosh, WI.
They have the prototype BD5 on display and may have historical records
that go with it.

You might try contacting the EAA Museum and Library in Oshkosh, WI.
They have the prototype BD5 on display and may have historical records
that go with it.

"Maury Markowitz" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm writing a general Wikipedia article on the BD-5 (rewriting

big snip

3) can someone give me a rundown of the engine models? I seem to
remember the article mentioning a version of the VW bug motor being
used, possibly as an option?

There is a BD-5V at the Planes of Fame museum in Chino, I was told it was
one of the very few that flew a VW engine.
http://www.planesoffame.org/museum-aircraft.php
Gary

I purchased one of the earlier kits, and that was in about 1972 or so. The
engine was never satisfactory, which is one of the reasons the company went
belly up - along with the drive system. I recall that Hirth was one of the
first engines, then Xenoah. Few engines were shipped. We got most of the
parts, except for the engine and drive train.

One of the first "outside" engine was the Honda. Bede put a lot of bucks
into one engine company, and I think it was the Xenoah, but it went belly
up. It was a 2 stroke and Bede never was satisfied with the engine. The VW
engine was never part of the company plans.

Bede used the customers deposits to fund the company. The funds were
represented at one time to be in escrow, but they never were.

Burt Rutan was involved early on as a design engineer.

There were two different wings available in the kit. The long-winged B
version, and the short-winged A version. The difference was just as you
would expect between long wings and short wings.

The V tail was eliminated before any of the kits were shipped.

I started flying in 1969, and seems like all the development came after I
got my license, so I think 1971 is probably the start date. The shipping
date kept getting pushed back, but it was probably 1972 or so. During the
delays, the J version came out. That might have been about 1973.

It is sometimes difficult to squeeze facts out of the old timers, and I am
recalling things as I go. Some engines were shipped. I recall you had a
choice of taking the existing engine (maybe Hirth), or wait until the better
engine came out.

The BD-5 was to the airplane industry as the Tucker was to automobiles. I
think Bede fully intended to meet his promises, but was never satisfied with
the engine/drivetrain and simply spent all of the money trying to make an
acceptable product.

I think I recall my serial number was 2144. Boy, that took a lot of work to
pull that out.

Colin

Wasn't there also a glider version?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 00:23:28 -0600, "Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired"
wrote:

Wasn't there also a glider version?

Almost all of them, eventually. :-)

Ron Wanttaja

Wasn't there also a glider version?

You are trying to pull something out of dormant memory cells. I vaguely
recall a BD flyer that talked about a glider version - during the
"extension" period. But, the B version wings may actually have been the
glider version. Fact and fiction were often intermixed.

Bede was simply in the wrong field. He should have been a computer software
guy, where it is now called vaporware.

Colin - former BD-5 owner

Ron Wanttaja wrote:
On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 00:23:28 -0600, "Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired"
wrote:


Wasn't there also a glider version?


Almost all of them, eventually. :-)

Ron Wanttaja



BD-5 glider: See "Lawn Dart".

- J.O.-