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High Altitude operations (Turbo charge???)



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 4th 03, 11:32 AM
Andre
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Default High Altitude operations (Turbo charge???)

I operate off an airfield with a ground elevation of 5327 feet ASL.
Obviously my engine (VW 1835cc with Zenith Carb) feels the altitude
somewhat.
I am thinking....
Would Turbo charging help?
What about an electric blower to increase manifold pressure maybe?
Or how about a NOS system?


  #2  
Old July 4th 03, 02:55 PM
Richard Lamb
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How about building a 2180.

Personally, I'd not fly a turbocharged VW.

Ever.

Richard

htp://www.flash.net/~lamb01

Andre wrote:

I operate off an airfield with a ground elevation of 5327 feet ASL.
Obviously my engine (VW 1835cc with Zenith Carb) feels the altitude
somewhat.
I am thinking....
Would Turbo charging help?
What about an electric blower to increase manifold pressure maybe?
Or how about a NOS system?

  #3  
Old July 4th 03, 03:43 PM
Bart D. Hull
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Andre,

I believe turbo-charging is a good solution to your problem. I have
specifically looked into altitude compensation with my system that
I have setup on my Subaru 2.2l.

I have seen the electric blowers on EBAY but I don't believe you will
see the pressure that is developed with a turbo.

Considerations with a turbo setup.

1. Additional weight
2. How much boost? (Too much and you will ping your engine to death.)
3. How to add additional fuel to match boost (IE EFI system or carb)
4 If your using a carb are you going to use a blow through or suck
through system.
5. Timing may need to be reduced dependant on boost to avoid ping.
6. Waste gate or pop-off valve to limit boost.

--
Bart D. Hull

Tempe,Arizona

Check
http://www.inficad.com/~bdhull/engine.html for my Subaru Engine
Conversion
Check http://www.inficad.com/~bdhull/fuselage.html for Tango II I'm
building.



Andre wrote:
How about RAM air?
Is that even worth considering?

"Andre" wrote in message
...

I operate off an airfield with a ground elevation of 5327 feet ASL.
Obviously my engine (VW 1835cc with Zenith Carb) feels the altitude
somewhat.
I am thinking....
Would Turbo charging help?
What about an electric blower to increase manifold pressure maybe?
Or how about a NOS system?







  #4  
Old July 4th 03, 07:12 PM
clare @ snyder.on .ca
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On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 15:05:25 GMT, Richard Riley
wrote:

On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:32:08 +0200, "Andre" wrote:

:I operate off an airfield with a ground elevation of 5327 feet ASL.
:Obviously my engine (VW 1835cc with Zenith Carb) feels the altitude
:somewhat.
:I am thinking....
:Would Turbo charging help?

A lot.

:What about an electric blower to increase manifold pressure maybe?

I've never seen it done. It's plausible that, with a reasonable
weight in batteries, you could get a couple of minutes boost just for
takeoff. It would be a *very* experimental installation.

:Or how about a NOS system?

Again, just for takeoff it's a possibility, but you'd go through a lot
of it in a hurry.


How about a gasoline powered leaf blower? Pull the rope for "boost on
demand"
  #5  
Old July 4th 03, 07:31 PM
Roger Halstead
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On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 12:46:52 +0200, "Andre" wrote:

How about RAM air?
Is that even worth considering?


Ram air is not effective at low speeds.


"Andre" wrote in message
...
I operate off an airfield with a ground elevation of 5327 feet ASL.
Obviously my engine (VW 1835cc with Zenith Carb) feels the altitude
somewhat.


Just somewhat?? :-))

I am thinking....
Would Turbo charging help?


Probably turbonormalizing...It's not as hard on the engine and would
give you take off power at 5300. With a carb it get a bit
complicated as the carb needs to be in a pressure box.

What about an electric blower to increase manifold pressure maybe?


Not familiar with them.

Or how about a NOS system?


NOS needs a rather healthy mixture to begin with (As I recall it helps
with cooling)...I'm not sure about the higher altitude effects.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)




  #6  
Old July 4th 03, 08:54 PM
Rich S.
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clare @ snyder.on .ca wrote in message
...

How about a gasoline powered leaf blower? Pull the rope for "boost on
demand"


I see it mounted on the bottom of the fuselage under the pilot's seat, with
the pull cord going up between his legs and the blow nozzle pointed aft.
Does anybody have the thrust specs on popular models?

Rich S.


  #7  
Old July 5th 03, 09:06 AM
Paul Millner
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NOS needs a rather healthy mixture to begin with (As I recall it helps
with cooling)...

NOS adds a bunch of heat to the engine, so no, it doesn't help with cooling.
Basically, it's a safer way to add oxygen to the incoming air than injecting
oxygen directly... so since the incoming air is now much more oxygen rich,
you need a bunch more fuel, or your mixture will go very lean. In that
sense, it's an alternative to turbocharging... but the NOS bottle will last
a minute or so, OK for one takeoff... then what? :-)

Paul, turbo Cardinal mode


  #8  
Old July 5th 03, 09:07 AM
Paul Millner
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Ah.... but would it?

Rich "Best use of horsepower?" S.


Sure, 'cause you'll get the leverage of all the extra HP the air starved
engine can make... and leverage is the name of the game! :-)

Paul


  #9  
Old July 5th 03, 10:20 AM
Paul Millner
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With a carb it get a bit
complicated as the carb needs to be in a pressure box.


No pressure box required for Marvel Schebler / Precision Airmotive carbs...
just installation of a third throttle shaft seal (did it on my Cardinal when
I turbonormalized it).

Paul


  #10  
Old July 5th 03, 12:05 PM
Morgans
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"Rich S." wrote in message
...
"Morgans" wrote in message
...

It might work more better to have it blowing into the engine for this
poster's intent. :-)
--
Jim in NC


Ah.... but would it?

Rich "Best use of horsepower?" S.



So you think the leaf blower idea would be about as effective at increasing
HP, as farting into the carb for the methane content?

You may have a point. Anyone have some pressure gauge that could measure
the small amounts of boost at the business end of a leaf blower? I would be
curious to see what good one would do.

Didn't a guy use a two cycle engine setup to boost his engine for a race
lately? What kind of deal did he use?
--
Jim in NC



 




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