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Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 2nd 06, 05:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
karel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel


"bbutlergps" wrote in message
ps.com...
I am in Texas and my French only works in Paris, Texas that is so I
can't quite read that website on the Gaz_aile.
Would you know how much it weighs and what the output is?
Transportation isn't too big of a problem as long as you have time
(ship) 6 weeks plus. I can pick it up anywhere along the Eastern sea
board or Houston.


their website says
"il donne 53 CV à 5000 t/mn, pour 80 kg nu."
which I would translate quite literally as
if gives 53 HP at 5000 rpm, for a naked weight of 80 kgs.
I suppose the "naked" means without alternator, radiatior &C
In case you not know what kg is, 80 kgs corresponds roughly to 177lbs.

PS could yo kindly post your replies BELOW
the text you are answering to?


  #12  
Old December 2nd 06, 05:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
karel
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Posts: 26
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel


"karel" wrote in message
...


( ... )
their website says
"il donne 53 CV à 5000 t/mn, pour 80 kg nu."


more from their website:

"Très facile à trouver en occasion pour 300 euros ou en échange standard
pour 1 500 euros contre 13 000 euros pour un Rotax, et pas plus compliqué qu’un
bon vieux VW."

this engine is easily found secondhand for 300 euro's or 1500 for a factory
rebuild, as apposed to 13000 euro's for a Rotax. And no more complicated
than a good old Volkswagen engine.

I have some issues he I wouldn't like to fly behind an engine savaged
from a junkyard for 300 euro's, not unless profoundly revised which would
probably be most expensive except for those who can do it themselves. OTOH
1500 euro's for a factory rebuild sounds like a nice deal!

Not a word on the reduction, though, or I should have missed it.


  #13  
Old December 2nd 06, 06:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
clare at snyder.on.ca
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel

On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 17:34:22 -0000, "karel"
wrote:


"karel" wrote in message
...


( ... )
their website says
"il donne 53 CV Ã* 5000 t/mn, pour 80 kg nu."


more from their website:

"Très facile Ã* trouver en occasion pour 300 euros ou en échange standard
pour 1 500 euros contre 13 000 euros pour un Rotax, et pas plus compliqué qu’un
bon vieux VW."

this engine is easily found secondhand for 300 euro's or 1500 for a factory
rebuild, as apposed to 13000 euro's for a Rotax. And no more complicated
than a good old Volkswagen engine.

I have some issues he I wouldn't like to fly behind an engine savaged
from a junkyard for 300 euro's, not unless profoundly revised which would
probably be most expensive except for those who can do it themselves. OTOH
1500 euro's for a factory rebuild sounds like a nice deal!

Not a word on the reduction, though, or I should have missed it.

The scrapyard engine could be totally beat, or it may have been
replaced just days before the vehicle was damaged beyond repair -
making it a virtually brand new engine -- or anything in between. I've
seen some REAL GOOD engines sell cheap at the scrapyard,(and bought a
few) and I've paid top dollar for some pretty crappy ones (which were
returned).
An example of the good ones? I paid $100 for a corvair engine which
had been rebuilt less than 10,000 miles ago by a very anal german
craftsman.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

  #14  
Old December 2nd 06, 07:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
karel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 26
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel


clare at snyder.on.ca wrote in message
news
On Sat, 2 Dec 2006 17:34:22 -0000, "karel"
wrote:


"karel" wrote in message
.. .


( ... )
their website says
"il donne 53 CV à 5000 t/mn, pour 80 kg nu."


more from their website:

"Très facile à trouver en occasion pour 300 euros ou en échange standard
pour 1 500 euros contre 13 000 euros pour un Rotax, et pas plus compliqué
qu'un
bon vieux VW."

this engine is easily found secondhand for 300 euro's or 1500 for a
factory
rebuild, as apposed to 13000 euro's for a Rotax. And no more complicated
than a good old Volkswagen engine.

I have some issues he I wouldn't like to fly behind an engine savaged
from a junkyard for 300 euro's, not unless profoundly revised which would
probably be most expensive except for those who can do it themselves. OTOH
1500 euro's for a factory rebuild sounds like a nice deal!

Not a word on the reduction, though, or I should have missed it.

The scrapyard engine could be totally beat, or it may have been
replaced just days before the vehicle was damaged beyond repair -
making it a virtually brand new engine -- or anything in between. I've
seen some REAL GOOD engines sell cheap at the scrapyard,(and bought a
few) and I've paid top dollar for some pretty crappy ones (which were
returned).


Agreed, but that's exactly my point:
if you're not an expert, how can you tell them apart?
And the O/P seems to consider shipping one
from Europe to the US, so a return is not that easy
and certainly not free.
That's why I would prefer the factory rebuild option.


  #15  
Old December 2nd 06, 07:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Kyle Boatright
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Posts: 578
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel


"bbutlergps" wrote in message
ps.com...
No this aircraft is going to be manly flying to from our Ranch in North
Texas. It isn't going to be a cross country plane. I have several
reason to want to go the route of the Diesel one of which is the
ability to get / use tax free off road diesel.
Thanks,
Bill


Is tax free off-road diesel fuel cheaper than regular unleaded?


  #16  
Old December 2nd 06, 09:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Peter Dohm
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Posts: 1,754
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel

I am looking into a power plant for a Zenith 701. I am very interested
in going the route of a diesel. Would anybody have any information on
either the:
Smart (Mercedes) 3 cyl. 95 hp Turbo Diesel (can be chipped up to 112
hp) found in the Smart ForFour or VW Lupo or Fox (euro) 3 cyl. 1.4
liter 70 hp Turbo Diesel (can be chipped up to 108 hp)
What I am most interested in is weight and the PSRU.


Be sure if you go with an auto diesel conversion, that the fuel pump does

not
need the oily content of the diesel to keep from wearing out prematurely.

Jet
fuel (which I am assuming you will be using) does not lubricate as well as
diesel, and some converters have had problems with their fuel pumps, as a
result.
--
Jim in NC

Thanks for some interesting new info. I had been fascinated by the diesel
idea for a while, but gave up because of the weight penalty of the only
diesels commonly available here in the USA. The primary reason for my
interest was the continued availability of fuel (Jet-A) in the event that
gasolene ceased to be available at most airports. I suspect that the fuel
pumps for the newer electronically controlled "common rail" diesels are
fairly tolerant; but, if Jet-A and Diesel fuels are not fully
interchangeable, then diesel conversions could be very difficult to justify.

Peter


  #17  
Old December 2nd 06, 09:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Peter Dohm
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,754
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel


Go here...................
http://www.ecofly.de/english.htm


And then click on their prices and you will find a smart engine diesel
all ready to install into aircraft.


All the technical information is about the GAS version of the engine.
The listed weight is 57Kg all up for that version. As a SWAG, I'll bet
the Diesel is about 20-30% heavier.


That's probably a good estimate. The only solid information that I found
while I interested in the subject was that the diesel option added about 100
pounds to the curb weight of a current production VW Golf or Jetta. My best
guess would be that 90 pounds of that is the difference in the engine
weight.

Peter


  #18  
Old December 2nd 06, 09:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Peter Dohm
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,754
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel

Howdy,
I am looking into a power plant for a Zenith 701. I am very interested
in going the route of a diesel. Would anybody have any information on
either the:
Smart (Mercedes) 3 cyl. 95 hp Turbo Diesel (can be chipped up to 112
hp) found in the Smart ForFour or VW Lupo or Fox (euro) 3 cyl. 1.4
liter 70 hp Turbo Diesel (can be chipped up to 108 hp)
What I am most interested in is weight and the PSRU.
Thanks,
Bill

Sorry to rain on your parade, but...
That looks like a good way to turn on the "chip detector." :-(

It is really trivial for cars, which almost never run more than about 30% of
maximum power for extended periods. It is troublesome in trucks, and leads
to shorter engine life--but the only casualty is the owner's checkbook.
However in an airplane, I would take the manufacturer's power rating for
truck use, reduce it by another 10%, and then consider maximum cruising
power to be about 60 to 65% of that result.

I know that a lot of conversion advocates regard that as heresy, but I am
much more concerned that even I may still be too optomistic!

Peter


  #19  
Old December 3rd 06, 01:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel


flybynightkarmarepair wrote:
wrote:


Go here...................
http://www.ecofly.de/english.htm


And then click on their prices and you will find a smart engine diesel
all ready to install into aircraft.


All the technical information is about the GAS version of the engine.



I think if you look around the website a little more you will notice
they also sell a smart car diesel aircraft engine.

  #20  
Old December 3rd 06, 01:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Morgans[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,924
Default Smart Turbo Diesel or VW Lugo Diesel


"Peter Dohm" wrote

I suspect that the fuel
pumps for the newer electronically controlled "common rail" diesels are
fairly tolerant; but, if Jet-A and Diesel fuels are not fully
interchangeable, then diesel conversions could be very difficult to justify.


This is not to say that some engines are not fully capable of burning jet fuel.
Some are.

It is just saying that you need to find out if multiple people have put some
good hours on the engine burning Jet A, without problems, before you go for it.
If it is out there, it is a good bet that someone has used it. Find out, to
avoid surprises.
--
Jim in NC

 




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