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#21
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737 vs glider
Got it. Thanks for the clarification. I still have a hard time imagining ATC routing traffic within 500' of a glider if they appreciated how we operate, legal or not. They could save us all some false NMAC reports with a little more separation.
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#22
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737 vs glider
Chances are that the airliner would have never seen the glider if it wasn't thermaling. When flying straight and level in a collision course we are invisible.
Ramy |
#23
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737 vs glider
Glider did not come from Beloit operation
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#24
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737 vs glider
Let us add a word of appreciation for the United pilot, who was looking out the window, spotted a thermalling sailplane -- hard to do at 80 knots with our visibility and distractions, let alone 250 knots and his -- and promptly did something about it.
John Cochrane |
#25
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737 vs glider
I've been in 3 close calls with big iron while flying my glider inside the mode C veils N of PHL and also W of EWR. In all 3 cases I'm convinced that my Trig TT21 was a lifesaver. All occurred at about 6,000 MSL.
There were several things that were impressed on me as a result of these encounters. First, it is absolutely amazing how quickly these aircraft close on you from the time you first see them. Second, being 500 feet under a 747 or 737 in a glider is absolutely terrifying! Third, it was very difficult for me as a private pilot to dig out the needed SID or STAR information from paper charts - the advent of the geo-referenced SkyVector charts is a real step forward. Finally, don't count on having 500 feet separation. The legal variance on altitude encoders is +/- 125 feet, so you might be as close as 250 feet! -John, Q3 |
#26
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737 vs glider
My closest near collisions have all been in the airport environment and both the other aircraft and I were under control of the tower. In one case, September of 2003 out of Burbank, tower put a United Airlines MD 80 heading to Dallas, and me (in an MD520 N) , on a collision course at about 200 ft AGL. An amazing story all told, but bottom line, buy the safety devices you can, but... We both filed NASA reports and the guy at NASA actually called me and said this is the most amazing story he had seen, then told me he was not supposed to do this, he offered me the phone number of the United pilot. Interesting how both the United pilot and I had a little bit different perspective of the same event. If someone can find the incident report I would love to read it. Burbank tower actually tracked me down and apologized.
On Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 11:55:43 AM UTC-7, John Carlyle wrote: I've been in 3 close calls with big iron while flying my glider inside the mode C veils N of PHL and also W of EWR. In all 3 cases I'm convinced that my Trig TT21 was a lifesaver. All occurred at about 6,000 MSL. |
#27
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737 vs glider
On Wednesday, September 27, 2017 at 11:55:43 AM UTC-7, John Carlyle wrote:
I've been in 3 close calls with big iron while flying my glider inside the mode C veils N of PHL and also W of EWR. In all 3 cases I'm convinced that my Trig TT21 was a lifesaver. All occurred at about 6,000 MSL. There were several things that were impressed on me as a result of these encounters. First, it is absolutely amazing how quickly these aircraft close on you from the time you first see them. Second, being 500 feet under a 747 or 737 in a glider is absolutely terrifying! Third, it was very difficult for me as a private pilot to dig out the needed SID or STAR information from paper charts - the advent of the geo-referenced SkyVector charts is a real step forward. Finally, don't count on having 500 feet separation. The legal variance on altitude encoders is +/- 125 feet, so you might be as close as 250 feet! -John, Q3 In three occasions I've been close enough to a SW 737 to do a passenger count. Once probably close enough to pick them out of a lineup. Is that 500'? Closer? Hard to judge. All of these were on the north side of Reno. Since installing a transponder, nothing anywhere near that close - plenty of 737 vectored around me though, confirmed by listening to Norcal Approach. Transponders and ATC do work, if you give them a chance. |
#28
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737 vs glider
On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 11:23:46 AM UTC-4, Steve Koerner wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2017 at 8:00:40 AM UTC-7, Tom BravoMike wrote: On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 10:15:59 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote: Anyone have more details about it? In particular, was the glider equipped with transponder? This is not good rep for us, but could have been worse. https://thepointsguy.com/2017/09/uni...00000080461661 Ramy Last Friday, Sept. 22, when soaring south of Ionia, MI (somewhere on Grand Rapids and Lansing line), I suddenly saw a business jet (size of Cessna Citation or bigger) crossing in front and above, probably less then a 1000' higher than myself (5K-6K MSL altitude). Whether he saw me or not, I don't know. That close encounter and the incident described in this thread make me even more convinced: ADS-B for ALL (including gliders and drones) is the future. Very near future... And including Air Force jets! It's been ****ing me off this year to have near encounters with fighter jets that don't emit ADS-B on training flights in shared airspace. It's just asinine that the Air Force hasn't got it done yet and says they won't meet 2020 (per an article I read). I was on downwind to land my Taurus on a small strip in the Virginia Blue Ridge Mountains. My transponder started blinking which does not normally happen in mountain valleys. Then two F-16s whizzed by at the same (very low) altitude not much more that 500 ft away. I do not know if they saw me. I have an appointment to get ADS-B installed next week and wonder if it will help. |
#29
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737 vs glider
FWIW, I had a close encounter with an F-15 a few years ago. Local ATC had been sending inbound military traffic over our class D airspace at 3500 feet. I called local ATC, their response was "if you do not have a transponder I cannot see you". New young controllers rely totally on the technology. We have since had several get meetings and now have a great relationship with them.
Also gliders when circling have a ground speed that is less than 40 mph so the radar software ignores the contact. So "type and altitude unknown" call will not be made. C5 |
#30
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737 vs glider
No wonder piper cubs are painted yellow,.
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