Rudder waggle

On Nov 19, 5:24 pm, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:
Then we will have to politely agree to disagree. I have heard of too many
cases where tow plane releases failed to release, sometimes leading to loss of
the tow plane or much worse. I have also heard of situations where a tuggy
could not immediately reach the release. I have always been taught (and
taught) that the wave-off is a command. You when you get a wave-off, you
immediately release and then discuss things on the ground.

If the towplane release fails, then I argue the tow pilot will dive,
then perhaps give the wave off command. I can't imagine the tow pilot
giving a wave-off in an IMMEDIATE danger situation, as it has likely
been caused by the glider in the first place (kiting, for example).

I am also not advocating NOT RELEASING. What I am advocating is a
think before reacting attitude. If the glider pilot is taught to take
a MOMENT to consider the wing rock, then a MOMENT will also be taken
when faced with the rudder waggle. This MOMENT is used to decide
whether to release because the tug is in trouble or to look over the
glider first. Once the MOMENT has passed, if I realize the tug is
indeed rocking the wings, I WILL RELEASE. But if the tow pilot is
indeed in trouble, and the release has failed, I seriously doubt there
will be time for a waggle, the tow pilot will be diving to get
airspeed, and to get landed ASAP.

So, if you advocate IMMEDIATELY releasing, then we still disagree, I
refuse to do anything IMMEDIATELY without taking a MOMENT to consider
the consequences. There are too many automobile accidents caused by
someone swerving to avoid a minor mishap only to create a nasty
pileup, for example.

Let's keep our tuggies alive.

Absolutely! I pay attention to the tow plane, and will likely see the
problem develop before I see the wing wag, or might even give the TP a
call if I see smoke or parts being shed.

-Tom

ahh.. I think the tow pilot will release his end.. with you over head the
airport and in a position taht if the rope back releases it will not harm
anything on the ground
if neither can release.. then consider landing on tow
BT

"Bert Willing" wrote in message
...
The book says that we are going to land on tow (and we practize for that).

But then, I haven't heared of such a case in the last 27 years...

Bert

"Mike Lindsay" wrote in message
...

I wonder what other people do in the event that the glider cant release?

--
Mike Lindsay

On Nov 18, 7:06 am, toad wrote:
Since the rudder waggle signal was brought up in another thread, I
have a few thoughts and would like to get other opinions. I am a
glider and tow pilot for my club, so I have thought these through from
both ends.

To start with, if the tow plane gives you a wave off signal, THERE IS
TIME TO THINK ABOUT IT ! If there was no time (30 sec or less to
disaster) the tow pilot will just pull their release. So any signal
that you get, you have enough time to carefully think. "What is that
signal; check spoilers or wave-off ?" Take 10 seconds and THINK !

On the tow-pilot side, assume that the glider pilot will most likely
release when you give the waggle, so don't waggle unless 1) you are
going to die soon, if the glider doesn't close the spoilers, or 2) the
glider is high enough and close enough to the airport to land with
full spoilers out.

If you have a radio, you could calmly call the glider and say "hey
glider, are your spoilers open ?" Don't say the word release, because
he might release. I still wouldn't do this close to the ground.

Todd Smith
3S

When you experience enough wave offs, you learn the signal. Years ago,
when flying at 29 Palms behind what I think was a 170, our tows only
went as high as the engine oil temperature would allow. Just wait for
the wings to rock and then release.

A comment regarding radios - using a radio would be nice but the
towplanes where I fly either don't have a radio or do not have them
turned on. In fact, I have never talked to a towpilot by radio in over
30 years of soaring!
Steve

wrote:
On Nov 18, 7:06 am, toad wrote:
Since the rudder waggle signal was brought up in another thread, I
have a few thoughts and would like to get other opinions. I am a
glider and tow pilot for my club, so I have thought these through from
both ends.

To start with, if the tow plane gives you a wave off signal, THERE IS
TIME TO THINK ABOUT IT ! If there was no time (30 sec or less to
disaster) the tow pilot will just pull their release. So any signal
that you get, you have enough time to carefully think. "What is that
signal; check spoilers or wave-off ?" Take 10 seconds and THINK !

On the tow-pilot side, assume that the glider pilot will most likely
release when you give the waggle, so don't waggle unless 1) you are
going to die soon, if the glider doesn't close the spoilers, or 2) the
glider is high enough and close enough to the airport to land with
full spoilers out.

If you have a radio, you could calmly call the glider and say "hey
glider, are your spoilers open ?" Don't say the word release, because
he might release. I still wouldn't do this close to the ground.

Todd Smith
3S

When you experience enough wave offs, you learn the signal. Years ago,
when flying at 29 Palms behind what I think was a 170, our tows only
went as high as the engine oil temperature would allow. Just wait for
the wings to rock and then release.



A comment regarding radios - using a radio would be nice but the
towplanes where I fly either don't have a radio or do not have them
turned on. In fact, I have never talked to a towpilot by radio in over
30 years of soaring!

That would never fly (ahem) with the glider pilots at Boulder. Just ask
anyone in radio range ;-)

Typical Boulder radio communication between Tuggie and Tugger:

"Could you go just a little to the north?"
"This cloud or the one that looks like a horse?"
"The Quarter horse or the Thoroughbred?"
"Oh, I see. I think it's an Arabian, is that really a Quarter horse?"
"No I used to breed Quarters..."

We got a radio frequency all our own recently :-)


Shawn