How often do you have to go around?

Interesting thread. I'm pretty new having just done my solo cross country,
but I do have several entrys into Honolulu Class B space. I find its always
an adventure coming into Honolulu. We do normal 45 degree entries into
down wind, direct to base and even direct final, with frequent directions
from ATC to circle at various points enroute to delay for other traffic
coming in. We go from on final to 04L to "make that 04R". I've turned
final and then been told to make a 360 right where I was at -- all in all I
think its fair to say you need to be prepared for the unexpected when coming
into and when in the pattern.... But, ain't it fun :-)

"Wade Hasbrouck" wrote in message
...

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Wade Hasbrouck writes:

No... It means a "0 degreee entry to base" from where your at... i.e.
your
position is sufficent that you could fly perpendicular to the runway
from
your position and make a direct/0 degree entry to the base leg.

OK. If I'm not aligned with the base leg, what would the controller
request of me, and how would I enter it? (I don't think the sim ATC
is that sophisticated, but I'd still like to know.)


Enter the base leg as however you see appropriate, if a pilot is unsure of
or confused about what they are to do, the rule is "ask for
clarification", but you don't have anyone to ask in flight sim. Flight
Sim gives you this instruction before entering the aiport's airspace, so
you should have plenty of space and time, to get aligned for the base leg.
There is reason why it is "pilot in command" and not "Air Traffic
Controller in Command".

Problem with Flight Sim, is they are going to tell you "Enter leg of
pattern" on intial contact, which doesn't always happen in real life...
For instance when approaching Boeing Field from the East, and calling them
from over downtown Bellevue before entering their airspace... They may
tell you one of two things (landing to the south). Usually they will tell
you "Report Seward Park" or they will tell you "enter Base for 13L" If it
is the first, which it is 9 out 10 times, you head for Seward Park, and
once over Seward Park you give them a call and they will usually say
"Cleared to land runway 13L", which then you execute turn that is
somewhere between 90 degrees and 135 degrees to enter the downwind, or the
may tell you "Enter base for 13L", which doesn't happen very offten.

Will controllers ever ask you to enter a pattern in a way that
requires a sharp turn? For example if your heading is 240 and your
landing runway is 24, would a controller ever ask you to enter the
downwind leg of the pattern, which (if I understand correctly) would
require swinging well out to the left of RWY24 and making a 180° turn?
If so, what would be the reason for it?

If the controller has any sort of brain you should get a "straight-in for
Runway 24" Happens all the time when going into Boeing Field when
approaching from the south and they are landing to the north (Rwy 31L and
31R).

When I initially took lessons on a solo scholarship through CAP, my
instructor and I were out doing touch and goes on Rwy 34 at GTF, on about
the third one, mid-field, the controller told us "Cessna xxxx, Cleared
Touch and Go, Runway 16.", which I looked at my instructor and asked "You
mean we gotta turn around and go to the other end???", which he told to
hold on a second, and about 3 seconds later, the controller came back and
said "Sorry, Cessna xxxx, cleared touch and go, Runway 34.", which
afterward my instructor said "Student controller..." and smiled.



Also, are the directions of patterns (left or right) always assigned
to avoid crossing the take-off and landing paths of parallel runways?
And can I assume that a controller will not ask me to enter a pattern
in a situation where I'd have to cross the approach and landing paths
of a parallel runway in use?

What happens with the center runway, when there are three runways?
How does the pattern work? (Three parallel runways seems to be
uncommon, though, especially active runways.)

Would assume the Center runway is pretty much always a "straight-in",
don't know of any non-towered airports that have three parallel runways.
Never landed at an airport with three parallel runways so, I don't know.

On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 17:57:12 -0400, Ron Natalie
wrote:

Dan wrote:
Right.. for example at OSH where they are landing 3 planes at a time on
the same runway.


Oshkosh gets a special exemption to allow that. Normally,
there are stricter rules that the controllers must follow.
They have to plan (with little exception) that one aircraft
can not touch down until the other is clear.

Going into OSH about a week before the fly-in one year there were a
pair of us flying loose formation turning final. One was a Cozy and
the other my Deb. A tail dragger had landed and only partially turned
off at the first taxiway. The Cozy (canard) didn't have room to land.
I told the tower I had plenty of room. There was a pause followed by
ahhh OK. I had to apply power to get up to the tail dragger who was
still setting there talking to the ground crew. I started to go
around and they were gesturing for him to hurry up and get out of the
way. After all he could have stopped clear of the runway as he had a
good 100 feet plus to the west parallel taxiway for 36.

As usual I had trouble convincing them the Deb went in the classic
camping area even with my 1959 model sign.:-))


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Sun, 15 Oct 2006 22:56:25 -0500, "Jim Macklin"
wrote:

With an operating tower, your traffic pattern can be
whatever you and the tower can agree on at the moment.
Right traffic, left traffic, straight in, are all OK if
approved. You can ask for a take-off on 1R and do a left
turn and get the option on 17R, next time around, teardrop
and land on 31 and then do an cross over at mid-field to a
left downwind full stop on 19L because it a closer taxi.
I've this type of creative traffic pattern at Wichita, Tulsa
Int'l and also fit into arriving airplane traffic while

3BS is uncontrolled. The RNAV/GPS for both 06 and 24 start so far out
they are straight in from outside the airport area. The VOR-A comes
in at an angle at half pattern altitude crossing all runways at about
45 degrees. We have 18/36 and 06/24 while the approach is a circle
to land from a heading of 137 degrees at 500 AGL. That's where you
really need a safety pilot with their head on a swivel and I still
take the foggles off at least 3 miles out.

doing multiengine training doing steep turns and close
traffic to avoid the final approach to the active runways.
Ask and you shall receive. But see and avoid and right of
way still applies.

I've even had the ILS 28 when traffic was departing 10 at TVC. It was
see and avoid as well as advisories from the tower. I gotta admit
that with a 20 knot tail wind maintaining the GS was a challenge.
:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"A Lieberma" wrote in message
. 18...
and you get no sense of accomplishment sitting in
your lazy boy chair either AFTER flying a REAL
plane. After all, you are only SIMULATING what
is experienced better in a REAL plane.

So, does that mean that after sim-flying, the simmer can only drink a
near-beer?

"Grumman-581" wrote in
:

"A Lieberma" wrote in message

So, does that mean that after sim-flying, the simmer can only drink a
near-beer?

More like a Hi C fruit drink *big evil grin* or a Shirley Temple.

Allen