East River turning radius

EridanMan wrote:
How is this turn any different (at all) then a tight traffic pattern?

Based on what I've seen, that's how it should be handled. Flaps down,
Approach speed, stabalize... determine the winds, and make a nice
crisp, 20 degree-of-bank turn into them.

People screw up the base-to-final turns. Usually they just overshoot
and don't hit anything. Sometimes they stall and spin in, but small
airplanes balling it up off the end of the runway don't make the
national news.

EridanMan wrote:

How is this turn any different (at all) then a tight traffic pattern?

Based on what I've seen, that's how it should be handled. Flaps down,
Approach speed, stabalize... determine the winds, and make a nice
crisp, 20 degree-of-bank turn into them.

20 deg is way too shallow a bank angle unless you are flying in IMC. :-)

Matt

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message . ..
: NYC's East River is about 2000' wide. So when you approach the north
: endpoint of the VFR corridor there, you need to make a U turn with a 1000'
: radius (or less if you're not right next to the eastern shore when you start
: the turn).
:
: Suppose you're afraid to fly too slowly because you don't want to stall
: during the turn, so you cruise up the river at 90 knots. Suppose you're
: afraid to bank too steeply because you don't want to stall during the turn,
: so you use just a 30-degree bank.
:
: Oops: your turning radius is about 1200'.
:
: Using the East River VFR corridor requires planning the turn
: carefully--especially since you need to leave an extra margin in case you
: have to dodge high-density traffic there.
:
: --Gary
:
:

Found this link:
http://www.csgnetwork.com/aircraftturninfocalc.html
(Some other interesting calculators there also)

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
EridanMan wrote:
How is this turn any different (at all) then a tight traffic pattern?

Based on what I've seen, that's how it should be handled. Flaps down,
Approach speed, stabalize... determine the winds, and make a nice
crisp, 20 degree-of-bank turn into them.

People screw up the base-to-final turns. Usually they just overshoot and
don't hit anything.

Right. The base-to-final turn isn't usually just short of a row of
skyscrapers.

But there's another difference. Pilots are taught what the proper approach
speed is for landing, what a proper distance is between the downwind leg and
the runway, and proper bank angles (not to exceed thirty degrees for basic
landings, although steep turns are appropriate for more sophisticated
techniques).

So if a pilot used the same parameters for the East River U-turn, it would
work out ok. The potential problem, though, is that a pilot might not
recognize that those parameters are appropriate there. The pilot might
instead maintain an airspeed closer to cruise (but might still use just a
moderate bank angle).

Pilots are taught to perform explicit calculations of, say, the distance
required for landing or takeoff under various circumstances. But does the
private-pilot curriculum include explicit calculation of turning radius as a
function of airspeed and bank angle? (I don't recall encountering that in
the official part of my training, but perhaps I'm just forgetting.)

--Gary

"Neil Gould" wrote

Wow. You can do an Immelman in under 500'? Impressive!

How about a baby hammerhead turn, with a half roll coming out of it? g
--
Jim in NC

Found this link:
http://www.csgnetwork.com/aircraftturninfocalc.html
(Some other interesting calculators there also)

I think the turing radius calculator is borked......

Try 80MPH at 89 degree bank angle....

Impressive piece of engineering if possible. Found this link:

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com

Maule Driver wrote:

some rapid fire Laguardia radio work in the background

Good points except the above, IMO. Why monitor LaGuardia when you are not
required to do so? Monitoring and self-announcing on the discreet
frequency for that VFR corridor should be all the radio needed.

--
Peter

Peter R. wrote:
Maule Driver wrote:
some rapid fire Laguardia radio work in the background

Good points except the above, IMO. Why monitor LaGuardia when you are not
required to do so? Monitoring and self-announcing on the discreet
frequency for that VFR corridor should be all the radio needed.

That makes sense. What I was thinking of was, "what do you do to
request the a Class B clearance so you don't have to do the U-turn". Is
there a freq for self announcing and requesting clearances?

I'm wondering if the only thing that may keep the VFR corridor in place
is a desire on the part of ATC to keep all the sightseeing requests at bay.

Matt Whiting wrote:
EridanMan wrote:

How is this turn any different (at all) then a tight traffic pattern?

Based on what I've seen, that's how it should be handled. Flaps down,
Approach speed, stabalize... determine the winds, and make a nice
crisp, 20 degree-of-bank turn into them.


20 deg is way too shallow a bank angle unless you are flying in IMC. :-)

Yep. That's why most patterns are so darn big!

Sure would prefer to be maneuvering a Maule in there rather than a
Cirrus... let's see, a Cirrus to get there and a Maule to sight see from
= RV-10

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Neil Gould" wrote

Wow. You can do an Immelman in under 500'? Impressive!

How about a baby hammerhead turn, with a half roll coming out of it? g
--
Jim in NC

Presuming that no one is immediately on top of you, somethng akin to a
duster turn works quite well and only uses about 50 feet to make a really
dramatic difference in the turn radius. I used to do that to turn around a
Tomohawk (PA-38) in a small radius.

Peter