Parachute 20 year limit

Andy wrote:
On Dec 5, 6:33 pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
The wind and terrain will make a much bigger difference in your landing
the difference in descent rate between properly sized round or square
parachutes. A soft landing is likely important for someone doing 10 or
20 jumps a day, but not for emergency use.

I have made only about 60 jumps but all of them in the last 10 years
and all of them with low loading ram air chutes. The significant
difference between the ram air canopy and the round canopy is not just
sink rate. A ram air parachute has forward velocity and when it is
turned it goes in a different direction. A round parachute has very
little forward velocity

3 to 5 mph, according to my Softie manual.

and when steered just points in a different
direction but continues to go in the same direction - downwind.

Although a properly flared ram air chute has a lower touchdown sink
rate than a round, it's main advantage for emergency use may be that
the pilot can have some choice as to the landing location.

I still fly with a round but its over 20 years old. If I have to buy
a new chute I would seriously consider getting a ram air canopy.

My observation over 30 years of soaring is the round emergency parachute
works remarkably well for glider pilots. If the pilot gets out, he gets
down safely. I can't remember any glider pilot being seriously injured,
with the possible exception of the pilot of the glider that broke up in
wave near Minden a few years ago (surface winds were about 50 mph when
he landed).

Does anyone remember incidents where the pilot was seriously injured?

Does anyone know of an incident(s) where a ram air parachute, used by a
pilot with no jump training, would have significantly improved the outcome?

Does anyone know of an incident(s) where a ram air parachute, used by an
experienced ram air parachutist, would have significantly improved the
outcome?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

Does anyone remember incidents where the pilot was seriously injured?
Don't know of any. But I wouldn't be surprised. Given the average
age of glider pilots they need all the help they can get not having to
heal.
Does anyone know of an incident(s) where a ram air parachute, used by a
pilot with no jump training, would have significantly improved the
outcome?
Not enough events to draw from. Pilot rigs with squares are new(square
reserves have been around 20 years) and it's likely the early adopters
are mostly former jumpers.
Does anyone know of an incident(s) where a ram air parachute, used by an

experienced ram air parachutist, would have significantly improved the
outcome?
If you count skydivers using square reserves then lots. With (I'm
guessing)1-2 glider bailouts worldwide per year we don't have the number
of incidents to draw from.
My position is that if someone is in the market for a new parachute and
the price difference isn't a deal breaker then a square is the sensible
choice.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at
www.motorglider.org

Gregg Ballou wrote:
Does anyone remember incidents where the pilot was seriously injured?
Don't know of any. But I wouldn't be surprised. Given the average
age of glider pilots they need all the help they can get not having to
heal.
Does anyone know of an incident(s) where a ram air parachute, used by a
pilot with no jump training, would have significantly improved the
outcome?
Not enough events to draw from. Pilot rigs with squares are new(square
reserves have been around 20 years) and it's likely the early adopters
are mostly former jumpers.
Does anyone know of an incident(s) where a ram air parachute, used by an

experienced ram air parachutist, would have significantly improved the
outcome?
If you count skydivers using square reserves then lots.
With (I'm
guessing)1-2 glider bailouts worldwide per year we don't have the number
of incidents to draw from.

I'm talking about glider pilots using round emergency parachutes in an
emergency: do we know of any incident(s) where using "detuned" ram air
parachute instead of the round one might have significantly affected the
outcome, positively or negatively?

My position is that if someone is in the market for a new parachute and
the price difference isn't a deal breaker then a square is the sensible
choice.

My position is there is no evidence the untrained glider pilot will be
better off, and some chance the pilot might actually be worse off. So
far, the evidence I'm aware of (USA only - not familiar with overseas),
is that the round emergency does a good job, even with pilots that
haven't jumped before and have no real training.

I have no qualms about experienced jumpers using ram air parachutes in a
glider.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

On Dec 7, 3:55*am, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
I've done a limited amount of flying in Germany and New Zealand. In both
places chute wearing was taken for granted: so routine that NOT wearing
one would be surprising.

Er .. what?

We certainly don't normally wear chutes in our club two seaters for
rides or training, which is 99 of what they are used for. I can say
I've flown at every club in NZ but all the ones I have been to are the
same.

Chutes are worn as a matter of course in single seaters.

Mike

Did you apply to join the Caterpillar club and get ur certificate and
pin?

If you can't find the addres, let me know and I'll try to find the
contact info for you. They are back in NJ. You will have to provide
them documentation of ur bail out. There are only a few of us among
many hundreds of thousand pilots that have had to use a chute to save
our lives.

Trivia

I flew the P-40 at Uvalde during WWII )

Found out in later years from a friend who lived and grew up in Uvalde
that the room the wife and I rented was across the street from the
best little Whore House in town. Traffic 24 hours a day )

And the best.

Big John

************************************************** *********************


On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 18:47:17 -0800 (PST), wrote:

I agree with Tim Mara's points in his post above.

I had to bail out after a midair at Uvalde this year. That was my
first jump.The round Softie did the job perfectly. I did land hard,
and sustained some fractured vertebrae, but my ship landed a lot
harder than I did. As Tim states, you'll be adrenaline pumped, and
really won't feel it at the time. I got up and walked about three
quarters of a mile until I found some help.

My main take-away from the experience is that you need to have an
egress plan, and I got mine (and one of the two Softies I own) from
Allen Silver at www.silverparachutes.com - I highly recommend the
articles on his site. I got my other Softie from Tim at www.wingsandwheels.com,
and he's a great resource as well.

Regarding the 20-year limit, my first Softie is coming up on that
soon, and I'll replace it when that time comes. Seems like cheap
insurance to me. I'm a happy Softie customer, although I hope I don't
have to use the product in action again.

Mike Brooks
ex RG1 (next up - XL5)

On Sat, 06 Dec 2008 21:31:11 -0800, Bruce Hoult wrote:

We certainly don't normally wear chutes in our club two seaters for
rides or training, which is 99 of what they are used for. I can say
I've flown at every club in NZ but all the ones I have been to are the
same.

My memory must be going. I was certain I wore a chute for my check ride
at Paraparam and I certainly did at Omarama - I have pictures to prove
the latter.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Dec 6, 5:31*pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Does anyone remember incidents where the pilot was seriously injured?

April 1982 Tulare, California. Pilot baled out after a midair and
died on impact with the ground. It was my first contest.

Andy

At 13:41 07 December 2008, Andy wrote:
On Dec 6, 5:31=A0pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Does anyone remember incidents where the pilot was seriously injured?

April 1982 Tulare, California. Pilot baled out after a midair and
died on impact with the ground. It was my first contest.

Andy
Impact with an open parachute?

Chutes are worn as a matter of course in single seaters.

Pretty much the same at my (US) club. But, you have to ask "How weird is
that?".

Tony V. LS6-b "6N"

On Dec 8, 4:26*am, TonyV wrote:
Chutes are worn as a matter of course in single seaters.

Pretty much the same at my (US) club. But, you have to ask "How weird is
that?".

Tony V. LS6-b "6N"

I would say that with 3000 - 4000 ft cloudbases near the airfield and
2000 - 3000 ft terrain, our trial flights and training flights are
probably seldom high enough above the terrain for a parachute to be
any use to someone not intimately familiar with its use.