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#1
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Funny Story on the old Air Port Traffic Area
"Danny Deger" wrote in message ... My understanding now is there is no longer this subtle distintion between Class D and Class E going to the ground. The area around a controlled airport is Class D and is marked with a dashed blue line around the airport. No more chance of class D airspace that is "marked" only because the airport is blue. Danny Deger It may not always be marked, when our local airport first went to "contract tower" from "no tower", it was CLASS D, and it was painted blue on the charts, but the CLASS D dashed blue line was not printed on the charts with no altitude markings. It took two chart revisions to catch up. The only way to tell was NOTAMS. The question to ask the new "long waiting time" Lockheed FSS is... if I am filed into a different but nearby airport, are you going to give me the airspace NOTAM for the new class D at the airport I am not flying into? BT |
#2
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Funny Story on the old Air Port Traffic Area
BT wrote:
It may not always be marked, when our local airport first went to "contract tower" from "no tower", it was CLASS D, and it was painted blue on the charts, but the CLASS D dashed blue line was not printed on the charts with no altitude markings. It took two chart revisions to catch up. Yep, it takes a long time to catch u. Danny was right. In the old days there were Airport Traffic Areas which was defined as 5 statute miles from a control tower up to 3000' AGL. They were not in themselves controlled airspace. They however were usually colocated with Control Zones. The control zone might or might not have been 5 miles in diameter. You might also find control zones inside class B or C airspace. The control zone had a few additional restrictions on VFR traffic. When they rewrote the alphabet airspace, they did away with the goofy unmarked ATA (so they claimed) and added the class D surface area space to suck up both the CZ and ATA concepts. The class D is 4.6 NM (which you'll find is about the same as 5 SM) and they made provision for class E extensions to the class D (to handle the little notches of CZ that used to protrude past the ATA boundaries). Of course, it only took them about a year to realize that there were times they wanted to have a control tower but didn't want to set up a class D airspace (controlled airspace takes a NPRM process to set up). Temporary or new towers frequently get turned on without the class D having been established. So, they brought back the ATA except that they don't call it that. You'll find a quaint additional reg that says you gotta call the tower while within 4NM and 2500 of an control tower (even in class E or G airspace... 91.127(c), 91.126(d)). One problem with the alphabet airspace reclass is we did lose some nice terms. "Control Zone" was much better than "Surface Area of controlled airspace designated for an airport". And Airport Traffic Area is better than "within 4NM miles from the surface to 2500' agl of an airport with an operating control tower." |
#3
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Funny Story on the old Air Port Traffic Area
Back before we called it class D, we called the area around a controlled
airport an Airport Traffic Area. It extended for 5 NM (SM?) and up to 3,000 AGL from the tower. Just to confuse matters, 99.9% of controlled air ports had a region around them that controlled airspace went to the ground. It was always close to the boundary of the ATA, but not the same. One day I was flying into OK City at night VFR. As I approached the city from the south I called approach. He imediately tells me to call such and such tower because I am smack in the middle of his airspace. I look at my map and see something I had never seen before. A blue airport without the blue dash lines around it indicating the drop in altitude of controlled airspace. I had flown this route many times and never seen this fact before. I talked to the tower, then back to approach control. Approach asked me to call him on the phone when I got down. I almost didn't. I was afraid of punitive action. But he was nice and let me know I was not the first to violate this tower's airspace for the same reason. My understanding now is there is no longer this subtle distintion between Class D and Class E going to the ground. The area around a controlled airport is Class D and is marked with a dashed blue line around the airport. No more chance of class D airspace that is "marked" only because the airport is blue. Danny Deger |
#4
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Funny Story on the old Air Port Traffic Area
How does a sectional indicate an airport with a tower but no class D? Danny Deger Color of the airport and tower frequency information in the airport data field next to the colored airport. It's still BLUE BT |
#5
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Funny Story on the old Air Port Traffic Area
"Ron Natalie" wrote in message m... snip Of course, it only took them about a year to realize that there were times they wanted to have a control tower but didn't want to set up a class D airspace (controlled airspace takes a NPRM process to set up). Temporary or new towers frequently get turned on without the class D having been established. So, they brought back the ATA except that they don't call it that. You'll find a quaint additional reg that says you gotta call the tower while within 4NM and 2500 of an control tower (even in class E or G airspace... 91.127(c), 91.126(d)). How does a sectional indicate an airport with a tower but no class D? Danny Deger One problem with the alphabet airspace reclass is we did lose some nice terms. "Control Zone" was much better than "Surface Area of controlled airspace designated for an airport". And Airport Traffic Area is better than "within 4NM miles from the surface to 2500' agl of an airport with an operating control tower." |
#6
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Funny Story on the old Air Port Traffic Area
Ron Natalie wrote:
The class D is 4.6 NM (which you'll find is about the same as 5 SM) and they made provision for class E extensions to the class D (to handle the little notches of CZ that used to protrude past the ATA boundaries). As far as I can tell, there's no standard size for a class D circle. They define the radius when the airspace is established. If you take a look at a sectional of the airports around Phoenix, you'll see that most are 4NM, but some are larger and some are smaller. Williams Gateway (IWA) is larger than average, and on the west side, both Glendale (GEU) and Goodyear (GYR) are much smaller than average. John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180) -- Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com |
#7
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Funny Story on the old Air Port Traffic Area
"JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote in message news:7230b56508d63@uwe... As far as I can tell, there's no standard size for a class D circle. They define the radius when the airspace is established. If you take a look at a sectional of the airports around Phoenix, you'll see that most are 4NM, but some are larger and some are smaller. Williams Gateway (IWA) is larger than average, and on the west side, both Glendale (GEU) and Goodyear (GYR) are much smaller than average. The standard is 3.5 NM plus the distance from the Airport Reference Point to the end of the outermost runway, rounded up to the next tenth of a mile. The objective is to maintain departure aircraft within controlled airspace at a climb fradient of 200' per nautical mile. In cases of rising terrain the surface area will be a greater. |
#8
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Funny Story on the old Air Port Traffic Area
"Danny Deger" wrote in message ... How does a sectional indicate an airport with a tower but no class D? Here are a couple of examples: http://map.aeroplanner.com/mapping/c...yp=APT&txt=ord http://map.aeroplanner.com/mapping/c...yp=APT&txt=msn |
#9
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Funny Story on the old Air Port Traffic Area
"Danny Deger" wrote in message ... My understanding now is there is no longer this subtle distintion between Class D and Class E going to the ground. There never was. Class D surface areas have always been indicated by a dashed blue line and Class E surface areas by a dashed magenta line. The area around a controlled airport is Class D and is marked with a dashed blue line around the airport. The area around a controlled airport may be Class B, Class C, Class D, Class E or Class G. If it is Class D it will be designated by a blue dashed line. No more chance of class D airspace that is "marked" only because the airport is blue. There never was. |
#10
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Funny Story on the old Air Port Traffic Area
"Ron Natalie" wrote in message m... When they rewrote the alphabet airspace, they did away with the goofy unmarked ATA (so they claimed) and added the class D surface area space to suck up both the CZ and ATA concepts. The class D is 4.6 NM (which you'll find is about the same as 5 SM) and they made provision for class E extensions to the class D (to handle the little notches of CZ that used to protrude past the ATA boundaries). There is no standard size for a Class D or Class E surface area. The radius is 3.5 NM plus the distance from the Airport Reference Point to the end of the outermost runway, rounded up to the next tenth of a mile. The objective is to contain departure aircraft within controlled airspace at a climb gradient of 200' per nautical mile. In cases of rising terrain the surface area will be larger. The surface area may also need extensions to contain arrival aircraft. If all extensions are 2 NM or less they will be Class D airspace. If any extension is more than 2 NM then all extensions will be Class E. |
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