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#11
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Piper Archer II Air Leak Problem by Back Seat.
Thanks Jay, I shall head over and get joined up. Last year I was intending to go to the Fly-In but ran out of days to take off from work. Maybe this year, but intend to do Sun n Fun & OSH so we shall have to see what happens. Roy "Jay Honeck" wrote in message oups.com... As far as I can tell their is no draft coming out of the fine mesh plank vent on the pilots side. That is so weird. Is there something blocking *that* opening? I just can't imagine what's causing that kind of strong air-flow. The Cherokee Chat is the Cherokee Pilot's Association on-line chat room. You've got to be a member, but it's worth every penny to join, and then some. See them he http://www.piperowner.com/ With over 4000 Cherokee owners in the organization, you can always count on getting an answer on ANY Cherokee question you might have. And they have the BEST fly-in of the year. See info on that he http://cherokeeflyin.com/ We've attended the last four, and intend to go again this year. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#12
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Piper Archer II Air Leak Problem by Back Seat.
Good point there Jim, Unfortunately both of the fine mesh vents in the rear seat plank are not connected to ducts at all. They just vent cabin air to the area under the seat plank and from there the stale air should vent via the central belly hole. But you may have hit on a point. Although the vents are not ducted I will check if I can see how the air might flow under the plank. Thanks Roy "Jim" wrote in message ... Does anybody know the shape of the connection where the left and right sides join before exiting the outlet? "T"? "Y"? Could it be shaped so that the rushing air escaping from the left side is creating a low pressure area inside the tube on the right side causing air to enter the exit port and flow into the right side? Like a shallow well pump forces some water down the well through a venturi to force more water up the well. What happens if you put some duct tape over the outlet opening on the bottom of the plane? Jim "Jay Honeck" wrote in message oups.com... The outboard floor vents are connected to the wing root openings. The heater vents run along the center tunnel between the seats. The overhead vents connect to the vertical stabilizer opening with the blower in between. Yep, but he's not talking about ANY of those vents. There is a fine grating piece that fits alongside the rear seats, between the seat and the outer wall of this model of Cherokee. This grating allows air to flow freely the cabin and the under-seat compartment (where the battery is on some Cherokees), and then out a hole in the bottom of the plane. Think "flow-through ventilation", circa Pontiac 1968. That hole has a shroud around it that makes it act like a venturi in flight, actually SUCKING the air through those mesh grates, and out the bottom of the plane. For some reason, the OP is getting air coming OUT of that grating -- only on the right side -- which is seemingly impossible. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#13
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Piper Archer II Air Leak Problem by Back Seat.
Sounds like a door seal that isn't sealing well. A door seal leaking, especially along the back edge of the door will, suck air out of the cockpit (same is true of the pilot's storm window, if you've ever opened it in flight it creates a considerable suction, in fact there is a SB that requires a placard warning not to open it over 150 MPH because doing so creates enough suction to actually break the stock 1/8" windshields). Being that it is the right side that has the draft, rather confirms this diagnosis. I have a similar issue with the rear left seat in my six. The door has a gap at the rear bottom and that sucks cold air in from the screened air exhaust vents behind the back seats making that one seat pretty chilly. |
#14
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Piper Archer II Air Leak Problem by Back Seat.
"Ray Andraka" wrote in message ... Sounds like a door seal that isn't sealing well. A door seal leaking, especially along the back edge of the door will, suck air out of the cockpit (same is true of the pilot's storm window, if you've ever opened it in flight it creates a considerable suction, in fact there is a SB that requires a placard warning not to open it over 150 MPH because doing so creates enough suction to actually break the stock 1/8" windshields). Being that it is the right side that has the draft, rather confirms this diagnosis. I have a similar issue with the rear left seat in my six. The door has a gap at the rear bottom and that sucks cold air in from the screened air exhaust vents behind the back seats making that one seat pretty chilly. Ray, Well I think you may have hit the nail on the head. We have recently replaced the floor mounted round vent seals, fitted new overhead ducts and flapper valve. The door seal will be replaced when the bird is painted in Feb and I know it does not seal well. So with the exception of the main door and baggage door the ship is pretty air tight, that may have made the situation worse. Thanks for the input. Roy |
#15
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Piper Archer II Air Leak Problem by Back Seat.
("Jim" wrote)
Does anybody know the shape of the connection where the left and right sides join before exiting the outlet? "T"? "Y"? What happens if you put some duct tape over the outlet opening on the bottom of the plane? How about using both setting on a shop-vac? ...and some ribbon? Since work has recently been done, I suspect a disconnected duct piece somewhere. Montblack http://www.aem.umn.edu/outreach/Baseball_Launcher/startrib1.pdf The HHH Metrodome's vents work just fine. g http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/news/2003/07/26/metrodome_winds_ap/ Same air vent story |
#16
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Piper Archer II Air Leak Problem by Back Seat.
Coming in through the cabin outflow/exhaust outlet? That is strange.
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#17
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Piper Archer II Air Leak Problem by Back Seat.
Hi Roy!
I second this. That group has the most knowledgeable group on Cherokees bar none! Newbees to seasoned AME's, and they all LOVE their Cherokees! I think this discussion is closing in on UR prob, SOMETHING is greating a vacuum in your cabin, and the cold air is roaring in to replace the air being sucked out "somewhere" How does the VSI respond to quickly closing the vent? As to why the "left side vs right side"..scratching my bean on that part... Dave On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:02:20 GMT, "Roy N5804F" wrote: Thanks Jay, I shall head over and get joined up. Last year I was intending to go to the Fly-In but ran out of days to take off from work. Maybe this year, but intend to do Sun n Fun & OSH so we shall have to see what happens. Roy "Jay Honeck" wrote in message roups.com... As far as I can tell their is no draft coming out of the fine mesh plank vent on the pilots side. That is so weird. Is there something blocking *that* opening? I just can't imagine what's causing that kind of strong air-flow. The Cherokee Chat is the Cherokee Pilot's Association on-line chat room. You've got to be a member, but it's worth every penny to join, and then some. See them he http://www.piperowner.com/ With over 4000 Cherokee owners in the organization, you can always count on getting an answer on ANY Cherokee question you might have. And they have the BEST fly-in of the year. See info on that he http://cherokeeflyin.com/ We've attended the last four, and intend to go again this year. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#18
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Piper Archer II Air Leak Problem by Back Seat.
Could it be possible that the cabin roof vent from the tail has an
opening to the empennage and that pressurizes the empennage when you close the flapper to the overhead outlets? There would also have to be something blocking the wall grille on the left side of the cabin. The impact air at cruise may be at high enough volume and pressure to overwhelm the belly exit vent and the residual volume flows backward into the cabin via the right wall grille. Just a thought based on what I've seen in this thread so far. -----Original Message----- From: Roy N5804F ] Posted At: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 6:28 PM Posted To: rec.aviation.owning Conversation: Piper Archer II Air Leak Problem by Back Seat. Subject: Piper Archer II Air Leak Problem by Back Seat. Good point there Jim, Unfortunately both of the fine mesh vents in the rear seat plank are not connected to ducts at all. They just vent cabin air to the area under the seat plank and from there the stale air should vent via the central belly hole. But you may have hit on a point. Although the vents are not ducted I will check if I can see how the air might flow under the plank. Thanks Roy "Jim" wrote in message ... Does anybody know the shape of the connection where the left and right sides join before exiting the outlet? "T"? "Y"? Could it be shaped so that the rushing air escaping from the left side is creating a low pressure area inside the tube on the right side causing air to enter the exit port and flow into the right side? Like a shallow well pump forces some water down the well through a venturi to force more water up the well. What happens if you put some duct tape over the outlet opening on the bottom of the plane? Jim "Jay Honeck" wrote in message oups.com... The outboard floor vents are connected to the wing root openings. The heater vents run along the center tunnel between the seats. The overhead vents connect to the vertical stabilizer opening with the blower in between. Yep, but he's not talking about ANY of those vents. There is a fine grating piece that fits alongside the rear seats, between the seat and the outer wall of this model of Cherokee. This grating allows air to flow freely the cabin and the under-seat compartment (where the battery is on some Cherokees), and then out a hole in the bottom of the plane. Think "flow-through ventilation", circa Pontiac 1968. That hole has a shroud around it that makes it act like a venturi in flight, actually SUCKING the air through those mesh grates, and out the bottom of the plane. For some reason, the OP is getting air coming OUT of that grating -- only on the right side -- which is seemingly impossible. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#19
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Piper Archer II Air Leak Problem by Back Seat.
We have recently replaced the floor mounted round vent seals, fitted new
overhead ducts and flapper valve. The door seal will be replaced when the bird is painted in Feb and I know it does not seal well. So with the exception of the main door and baggage door the ship is pretty air tight, that may have made the situation worse. Ray's theory seems plausible. Just beware that putting on a new door seal alone might not solve your door-seal problem. It sure didn't with our old Warrior's door. The Cherokee door is held on with two light-weight hinges that can (and often will) be easily bent over time. (In my experience, EVERY uneducated passenger or maintenance worker leans on that door when they get in/out of the plane.) All it takes is someone leaning heavily on the door with it wide open, and your door will NOT seal properly when you close it, no matter what type of foam seal you may apply. If your door is cockeyed in the opening, there are half a dozen possible adjustments, some involving shims, others involving bending. I spent many hours making my Warrior's door airtight, and can give you some tips if it should come to that. Good luck! -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#20
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Piper Archer II Air Leak Problem by Back Seat.
Dave, I have signed up ! About the only instrument that I have not overhauled in this Archer is the VSI. It reads horribly optimistic, like, I have the only Archer ever built that climbs on the plains here at 1200 FPM. If I really try, I can make 1500 FPM :-) I have to admit that I don't know much about the operation of a VSI appertaining to an Archer :-( I can't get my head round it at the moment, but could the slight negative pressure in the cabin affect the VSI ? Roy "Dave" wrote in message ... Hi Roy! I second this. That group has the most knowledgeable group on Cherokees bar none! Newbees to seasoned AME's, and they all LOVE their Cherokees! I think this discussion is closing in on UR prob, SOMETHING is greating a vacuum in your cabin, and the cold air is roaring in to replace the air being sucked out "somewhere" How does the VSI respond to quickly closing the vent? As to why the "left side vs right side"..scratching my bean on that part... Dave On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 00:02:20 GMT, "Roy N5804F" wrote: Thanks Jay, I shall head over and get joined up. Last year I was intending to go to the Fly-In but ran out of days to take off from work. Maybe this year, but intend to do Sun n Fun & OSH so we shall have to see what happens. Roy "Jay Honeck" wrote in message groups.com... As far as I can tell their is no draft coming out of the fine mesh plank vent on the pilots side. That is so weird. Is there something blocking *that* opening? I just can't imagine what's causing that kind of strong air-flow. The Cherokee Chat is the Cherokee Pilot's Association on-line chat room. You've got to be a member, but it's worth every penny to join, and then some. See them he http://www.piperowner.com/ With over 4000 Cherokee owners in the organization, you can always count on getting an answer on ANY Cherokee question you might have. And they have the BEST fly-in of the year. See info on that he http://cherokeeflyin.com/ We've attended the last four, and intend to go again this year. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
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