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Becker AR 4201 or Microair 760 Transceiver



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 3rd 03, 11:12 AM
Mike Borgelt
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On 3 Sep 2003 02:03:49 -0700, (Andy Durbin)
wrote:

(Steve B) wrote in message . com...
Anybody compared the two or had any experience with them?

Big Price Difference... I dont mind spending the money for the Becker,
just curious if the Microair is a good unit?

Thanks
Steve


I have a Microair in my ASW-28. It has a front panel squelch control
that can be very useful for shutting out chatter from distant sites
while still leaving the volume high enough to hear safety calls from
proximate gliders. Other "top of the line" glider radios have no
pilot adjustable squelch.

I am happy with mine except that I still have not resolved a problem
that a few gliders that I fly with are very distorted and unreadable,
while most are clear even when very close.

Andy (GY)


I think your problem is actually in the other gliders. The MicroAir
receiver is narrow band. Other transmitters may meet the older
specifications but may have a problem talking to a MicroAir receiver.
I think that was what the MicroAir designer was talking about at
Kingaroy a few months ago.

Mike Borgelt

Ads
  #12  
Old September 4th 03, 03:41 AM
Steve Pawling
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Andy,

I have the same situation that you described with my Microair. Just
about every glider sounds different and I sure appreciate those with
"tight" radios. I agree with Mike Borgelt's reply that the other
radios are not up to par.

Overall the Microair has performed well (except for the excessive
sensitivity) but I would rate the quality of finish and external
components (judged by the feel of the pots, etc.) as only average. My
old Dittel was really nice...

Steve
LS-3a AM

snip

I am happy with mine except that I still have not resolved a problem
that a few gliders that I fly with are very distorted and unreadable,
while most are clear even when very close.

Andy (GY)

  #13  
Old September 4th 03, 01:29 PM
Ray Lovinggood
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I have a Microair in my glider and there are a couple
of gliders in our club that I can't understand transmissions
coming from their radios.

One is equipped with an (identical?) Microair and the
other is equipped with either a Dittel or a Becker.
Other gliders hear them fine. All I hear is a garbled
message. I can usually determine who is speaking by
the sound of their voice, but I can't distinguish the
words.

I do plan on taking the glider to a radio shop and
have them check it out, including the antenna.

Is it my radio or the others? I suspect it is my radio
since others here the 'garblers' clearly. They all
say my transmissions are clear.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
LS-1d (In need of a snorkle this year...)


At 12:36 04 September 2003, Andy Durbin wrote:
Mike Borgelt wrote in message
I have a Microair in my ASW-28. It has a front panel
squelch control
that can be very useful for shutting out chatter from
distant sites
while still leaving the volume high enough to hear
safety calls from
proximate gliders. Other 'top of the line' glider
radios have no
pilot adjustable squelch.

I am happy with mine except that I still have not
resolved a problem
that a few gliders that I fly with are very distorted
and unreadable,
while most are clear even when very close.

Andy (GY)


I think your problem is actually in the other gliders.
The MicroAir
receiver is narrow band. Other transmitters may meet
the older
specifications but may have a problem talking to a
MicroAir receiver.
I think that was what the MicroAir designer was talking
about at
Kingaroy a few months ago.

Mike Borgelt


Mike,

I suspect you are right nut I have not yet been able
to confirm with
frequency measurements.

Is the MicroAir designed with a narrow IF passband
to support 12.5kHz
channel spacing? It only allows selection of 25kHz
channels. If that
is the case perhaps they would consider a design change
to widen the
IF passband.

Has Australia changed to 12.5kHz spacing?

Andy (GY)




  #14  
Old September 4th 03, 02:58 PM
Tim Newport-Peace
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X-no-archive: yes
In article , Mike Borgelt
writes

I think your problem is actually in the other gliders. The MicroAir
receiver is narrow band. Other transmitters may meet the older
specifications but may have a problem talking to a MicroAir receiver.
I think that was what the MicroAir designer was talking about at
Kingaroy a few months ago.

Mike Borgelt

Mike, what exactly are you saying by narrow band? Is the Microair
8.33Khz spacing (which we are threatened with)?

Tim Newport-Peace

"May you be cursed with a chronic anxiety about the weather."

John Burroughs (1837-1921).
  #15  
Old September 5th 03, 12:20 AM
Mike Borgelt
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On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 14:58:44 +0100, Tim Newport-Peace ]
wrote:

X-no-archive: yes
In article , Mike Borgelt
writes

I think your problem is actually in the other gliders. The MicroAir
receiver is narrow band. Other transmitters may meet the older
specifications but may have a problem talking to a MicroAir receiver.
I think that was what the MicroAir designer was talking about at
Kingaroy a few months ago.

Mike Borgelt

Mike, what exactly are you saying by narrow band? Is the Microair
8.33Khz spacing (which we are threatened with)?

Tim Newport-Peace

"May you be cursed with a chronic anxiety about the weather."

John Burroughs (1837-1921).



I'm not sure of the exact details but the implication was that the
MicroAir was tighter than required for 25Khz spacing. I'll ask.

Mike Borgelt
  #16  
Old September 5th 03, 12:27 AM
Mike Borgelt
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On 4 Sep 2003 04:43:44 -0700, (Andy Durbin)
wrote:

Mike Borgelt wrote in message
I have a Microair in my ASW-28. It has a front panel squelch control
that can be very useful for shutting out chatter from distant sites
while still leaving the volume high enough to hear safety calls from
proximate gliders. Other "top of the line" glider radios have no
pilot adjustable squelch.

I am happy with mine except that I still have not resolved a problem
that a few gliders that I fly with are very distorted and unreadable,
while most are clear even when very close.

Andy (GY)


I think your problem is actually in the other gliders. The MicroAir
receiver is narrow band. Other transmitters may meet the older
specifications but may have a problem talking to a MicroAir receiver.
I think that was what the MicroAir designer was talking about at
Kingaroy a few months ago.

Mike Borgelt


Mike,

I suspect you are right nut I have not yet been able to confirm with
frequency measurements.

Is the MicroAir designed with a narrow IF passband to support 12.5kHz
channel spacing? It only allows selection of 25kHz channels. If that
is the case perhaps they would consider a design change to widen the
IF passband.

Has Australia changed to 12.5kHz spacing?

Andy (GY)


We have not changed to 12.5Khz spacing.
I suggest if you are having problems that you email the MicroAir
people direct. Ian Mugen is the manager of the MicroAir factory and he
is a glider pilot from New Zealand.
MicroAir is owned by the people who also own and run the Jabiru
aircraft and engine factory. I know them all and I'm sure if you let
them know they'll help. They can't fix what they don't know about.

Mike Borgelt


  #17  
Old September 5th 03, 11:55 AM
Andy Durbin
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Mike Borgelt wrote in message We have not changed to 12.5Khz spacing.
I suggest if you are having problems that you email the MicroAir
people direct. Ian Mugen is the manager of the MicroAir factory and he
is a glider pilot from New Zealand.
MicroAir is owned by the people who also own and run the Jabiru
aircraft and engine factory. I know them all and I'm sure if you let
them know they'll help. They can't fix what they don't know about.

Mike Borgelt


Thank Mike,

I exchanged some email with them on this problem earlier this year. I
have delayed follow-up action until the end of the soaring season.

Until I participated in this thread I didn't know that others were
experiencing the same problem. That's useful information.

Will anyone that has a MicroAir, and has receive signal distortion on
only a few specific transmitters, please contact me giving me the
serial number of the MicroAir and, if possible, the make and model of
the problem transmitter(s).


thanks

Andy (GY)
  #18  
Old September 10th 03, 01:51 PM
David Kinsell
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"Andrew Warbrick" wrote in message ...

What I was getting at is that the Microair is more
sensitive to a very slightly low battery voltage than
most glider instruments.


Radios in general are more sensitive to low voltage
than other glider instruments.


When I press the PTT the LX160
does not complain about low battery voltage which means
it's not going below 10V.



If you read your specs, the normal operating voltage is
listed as 13.8 volts, and "emergency minimum" is
listed at 10.5. Any radio you're likely to buy for a glider
has serious problems transmitting below 11 volts, either
distortion or total failure to transmit. If you are down at
10-11 volts, that certainly is not "very slightly" below
the rated voltage of the radio.


My main battery is a 12V 12Ah Yuasa, it was new in
March and has only been charged about a dozen times
with an appropriate battery charger. It is expected
to run an Ipaq (up to 2A more likely 0.5A) an LX160s,
the radio and from time to time an artificial horizon
(peak current 2A, 1.6A when running) it will run all
of this kit for up to eight hours (tested in flight).
This probably causes the battery voltage to fall to
round about 10.5-11V after about 3 hours use. This
is enough to upset the Microair.


You're making guesses about the battery voltage. You
don't really know what the battery voltage is, and you
don't really know about the losses in the other parts of the
electrical system. Measuring the voltage at the radio during
the failure to transmit is the only way to actually diagnose the
problem. Certainly can do that on the ground after a long
flight, or a simulated long flight.


The fin battery is
12V 7Ah made up of two 6V 7Ah Yuasa batteries, it also
was new in March but I keep it as a backup to ensure
I'm never without a horizon in the event of the main
battery going down, I've had to resort to using the
fin battery to power the radio because that's the only
way to get reliable transmission out of the Microair.

There could be two possible causes for this. The voltage
out of the main battery is down slightly under load
and the Microair doesen't like it. Or, another device
is putting electrical noise on the 12V line and the
Microair doesen't like that.


Or one of the cells in the main battery got damaged from
being dropped. Or you have defective wiring. Or you get
significant drops from diodes that people like to sprinkle into
multi-battery systems. Or one of your many switches has
bad contacts. Or you've got a slow-blow fuse with excessive
resistance. These are just a few of the possibilities. There
is absolutely no substitute for measuring the voltage, and then
studying the specs in your manual.


I'm not going to go for a 14V battery, strapping a
mismatched 2V cell to a 12V battery is a truly awful
solution to bady designed instruments that won't work
properly with a 12V battery.


Gosh, I've got 7 perfectly matched cells in a battery that
fits in the tail fin, powers the whole panel for 6 hours no
problem. I haven't seen less than 13.5 volts, during transmit,
at the end of long flights. Never has glitched the flight recorder,
and I don't have to be distracted with flipping switches during
the flight to try to find enough juice to keep things powered.
There is a certain elegance in using a proper battery in the first
place. Let's see, 14 volt radio, 14 volt battery. No wonder it
works so good.

Starting with a battery two volts too low, then slapping on
a DC-DC converter to try to compensate for undiagnosed
problems in your electrical system doesn't strike me as
an elegant solution.


We have similar problems with the Microair 760 fitted
to one of the club's Puchacz, if the battery voltage
is slightly low the radio won't transmit even though
the vario and turn and slip work fine.


That's just the way radios work, if you have an inadequate
electrical system. They're the first to fail due to low voltage.
Dittels and Beckers don't work at low voltage either.

Dave Kinsell


  #19  
Old September 10th 03, 03:47 PM
Bert Willing
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You actually can display the battery voltage on the LX160 for this pupose,
and do that while you transmitt on the radio (or, at least trying to...)

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"David Kinsell" a écrit dans le message de
news:[email protected]

"Andrew Warbrick" wrote in

message ...

You're making guesses about the battery voltage. You
don't really know what the battery voltage is, and you
don't really know about the losses in the other parts of the
electrical system. Measuring the voltage at the radio during
the failure to transmit is the only way to actually diagnose the
problem. Certainly can do that on the ground after a long
flight, or a simulated long flight.



 




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