How long to keep VOR check records?

So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
that flight."

This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
maintenance records?


Happy landings,
Ross Oliver

No where does it say WHERE they must be recorded. I enter them in the
"remarks" column of my pilot's logbook.

Rip

Ross Oliver wrote:
So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
that flight."

This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
maintenance records?


Happy landings,
Ross Oliver

"Ross Oliver" wrote:

So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
that flight."

FAA imposes on itself a time limit for initiating investigations,
something like only 6 months. No need to be concerned about a flight
2 years ago.

Fred F.

In article ,
(Ross Oliver) wrote:

So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
that flight."

This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
maintenance records?


Happy landings,
Ross Oliver

The only time I could ever imagine somebody looking at your VOR check
log is after an accident. I also can't imagine any value in saving VOR
check records any older than the most recent one.

FAR 91.417 (b) (1) says you must keep the record for 1 year or until
the work is repeated. A VOR test is actually an inspection and is
considered "work". Where you keep it is up to you. It does not need
to be in any particular place or location. It does not need to be in
the aircraft either. It is a maintenance record.


On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:52:48 GMT, rip
wrote:

No where does it say WHERE they must be recorded. I enter them in the
"remarks" column of my pilot's logbook.

Rip

Ross Oliver wrote:
So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
that flight."

This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
maintenance records?


Happy landings,
Ross Oliver

Ross Oliver wrote:

So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
that flight."

This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
maintenance records?

Happy landings,
Ross Oliver

What everyone says is true, from 6 months for investigations, to 1 year
for maintenace inspections, to "until the next time."

If you are the kind of guy who likes to cover all the bases, keep them
for 1 year. Beyond that you have zero exposure. And, they can be kept
anywhere although the most current one is best kept in the aircraft in
the event of a ramp check. It can, however, be written on a cocktail
napkin. ;-)

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 05:15:08 GMT, (Ross
Oliver) wrote:


So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
that flight."

You don't have to keep them that long... Year as I remember, but why
not put them in a line in your log book instead of creating forms.
Them you'll always have them.

Just put the required information in the remarks section. It makes
the record keeping much simpler. You can still keep a formal record
if you wish. Thing is you don't have to do them every 30 days. You
only need a current check if flying IFR.

I don't bother with mine unless I have a flight coming up and then
just make sure they are current.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
maintenance records?


Happy landings,
Ross Oliver

I check mine before each flight provided there is a ground check
available, and then I just write it on my kneeboard with the required
date, type of test etc. That way it is always current (and if I am
somewhere I can't check it usually have a few months of old papers on
the knee board anyway), and I know immediately if it is misbehaving.

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

"Roger Halstead" wrote in message =
news
On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 05:15:08 GMT, (Ross
Oliver) wrote:
=20

So here's a question I had never thought of until getting my
instrument rating and owning an IFR-equipped aircraft: how long
should records of VOR checks be retained? Do they need to be
retained at all? Can the FAA come to me and ask, "Remember that
IFR flight to SLO you made 2 years ago? Show us the VOR check for
that flight."
=20
You don't have to keep them that long... Year as I remember, but why
not put them in a line in your log book instead of creating forms.
Them you'll always have them. =20
=20
Just put the required information in the remarks section. It makes
the record keeping much simpler. You can still keep a formal record
if you wish. Thing is you don't have to do them every 30 days. You
only need a current check if flying IFR.
=20
I don't bother with mine unless I have a flight coming up and then
just make sure they are current.
=20
Roger Halstead=20
=20

This came to mind because the next VOR check entry will fill up
the form I have been using, and I'll have to start a new one. So
I have to decide whether to discard the filled sheet, or save it
somewhere. Is there any value to saving these with the aircraft
maintenance records?

Happy landings,
Ross Oliver
=20
There's no valid argument *against* keeping the VOR checks in your
pilot logbook, but I just feel my personal logbook is an inappropriate
place to keep records belonging to the airplane.

FWIW, my Apollo CNX80 and its companion SL30 NavCom
both have internal storage for their most-recent VOR-check data.
I no longer need to fill out the pencil-and-paper records I used to keep
in my supplemental flight manual.
That strikes me as a much more convenient approach to record keeping.
I expect to see that idea used more widely, if the requirement persists.
I personally feel the VOR check is a kind of dinosaur-like requirement.
---JRC---

FAR 91.417 (b) (1) says you must keep the record for 1 year or until
the work is repeated. A VOR test is actually an inspection and is
considered "work". Where you keep it is up to you. It does not need
to be in any particular place or location. It does not need to be in
the aircraft either. It is a maintenance record.

This is the first time I've heard anyone claim that the VOR check is
considered maintenance. Do you have a reference for this interpretation?

If a VOR check is considered maintenance, then we're in trouble (except for
the pilots who also have an A&P), because VOR check is not on the list of
preventive maintenance items given in Part 43, Appendix A. So if it's
considered maintenance, but not preventive maintenance, most pilots would not
be authorized to perform it.

There are several other factors that indicate a VOR check is not maintenance:

- FAR 91.171(a)(2) uses the word "checked," not "inspected," for the 30-day
checks we're discussing here.

- FAR 1 defines maintenance to include "inspections", but not "checks".

- FAR 91.171(d) specifies record-keeping requirements that are different from
those in 91.417 and 43.9 (no certificate number, for example). If the VOR
check is an inspection, then you'd also have to comply with 43.11 and include
aircraft total time in service, and the statement "I certify that this
aircraft has been inspected ..."

It seems clear to me that the VOR check is not maintenance, and thus not
subject to the requirements of 91.417.

Barry