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Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.



 
 
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  #51  
Old June 29th 18, 10:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

Sorry, I should have read the whole thread before asking another
question.Â* It was answered later.

On 6/29/2018 3:36 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
But can you inspect your own glider and sign it off or must some
appointed person do it?

In the US many years ago the FAA required a logbook entry with each
assembly of a glider.Â* The Soaring Society convinced the FAA that it
was routine to assemble and dismantle gliders before and after
flight.Â* Thankfully the requirement was removed.

On 6/29/2018 9:41 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018 08:33:55 -0600, Dan Marotta wrote:

Things may have changed since I last flew in Australia back in the
mid-80s.Â* I was surprised when I said I would preflight my ship and was
told that I was not authorized to do that!Â* Only the "engineer" could
perform a preflight.Â* I've heard similar about the BGA, though I've
never been there.Â* And I'd suspect that process was only meant for
club,
not private, ships.

This applies to all gliders in BGA clubs. All have DI books which are
signed every day the glider is flown to show that known deferrable
faults
have been fixed or deferred and visual inspection and positive control
checks have been done and the glider is passed as serviceable. My
Libelle
is currently pegged down in its covers and will still get the same
preflight checks before its next flight that it got when it was rigged
yesterday.



--
Dan, 5J
  #52  
Old June 29th 18, 10:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 107
Default Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

Or you could respect the original post about a man grieving after watching his friend die. Who gives a **** about preflight inspections in the UK?
  #53  
Old June 29th 18, 11:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Posts: 1,463
Default Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

On Friday, June 29, 2018 at 2:52:58 PM UTC-7, wrote:
Or you could respect the original post about a man grieving after watching his friend die. Who gives a **** about preflight inspections in the UK?


Thanks for the well deserved "slap" back to a tragic event. I was just pondering aloud how we must have gotten de-sensitized to death, spins, sudden finality, the masses move on, passage of time remains ever present, clocks that bind will be left to rust. Tick tock, tick tock..... Squirrel

Watching Andy's last departure was heart wrenching.
  #54  
Old June 30th 18, 12:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 580
Default Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 10:40:57 PM UTC-4, Charlie Quebec wrote:
My deepest condolences to the pilot and his friends.
I do have a question, does the video show a normal US preflight procedure? It seemed very casual to me.


I agree we should respect the OP's intent. That said, sometimes there are things we can learn in these digressions. I'm hoping the above post reflects confusion about terminology rather than the criticism that's implied. One can infer very little from what we refer to as a preflight procedure from the video. As someone pointed out, there has not been even a suggestion that a glider malfunction caused this tragic death. In the video, the pilot is already in the cockpit with the towline connected. Yes, there are some final checks to be done (e.g., canopy secured) or repeated (e.g., altimeter set), but the bulk of what we refer to as a "preflight" (i.e., daily inspection) would have been performed by the pilot prior to getting in the takeoff queue, much less getting into the cockpit.

For example, I have four different written checklists that I manually mark off before I even get in the cockpit (Assembly, Launch Grid, Task--contests only, and Pre-Takeoff), plus the in-cockpit final checklist. I don't have a daily inspection book, per se. I do, however, check off each item on the checklist with a pen or pencil for two reasons: to make certain I don't forget anything, especially if I have to skip an item and then come back later and clear it. And the second, fairly minor reason is so that if something bad does happen, there will be a written record of what I inspected, not just the items that didn't meet standards but everything I looked at. Just my way of making it easier for the NTSB! Years ago I just let my thumb slide down the list as I walked around. As I've gotten older and the number of things I check has increased (it's up to about 85 items, now), I nearly always record the results. But that's just a personal practice; it's not mandatory.

In this country, it is the pilot's responsibility to do a preflight inspection to his/her satisfaction. What is appropriate for a metal glider that is kept assembled in a locked hangar might be somewhat different than for a composite glider that is rigged from the trailer every day, though it would still be quite comprehensive.

We do have one preflight inspection enforcement mechanism for SSA-sanctioned contests in the form of the "critical assembly check"--i.e., a subset of items from the checklist that are critical for flight (including the main pins, control hookups, etc.). The line crew will not launch a glider unless there are initials on the left wing root tape indicating that a critical assembly check was performed.

I was on the SSA board for the debate over whether to mandate this, with opinions strong on both sides. IIRC, the primary issue was, unfortunately, one of legal liability. Specifically, by mandating this check, were we opening the SSA or the organizers up to liability if it turned out that something on the critical list went wrong (in other words, did we become responsible for verifying the validity of the checks?--it's a strange legal world we live in). Also, and perhaps more important, would the person who assisted the pilot to do the check and signed the tape be liable in a similar situation? We resolved this with some legal disclaimers and also by agreeing that we would not seek to validate who actually did the critical assembly check or signed the tape. That means many pilots do enlist others to assist them and sign the tape. Others seek assistance but then sign the tape themselves. And still others do the check and sign the tape themselves.

Many commercial and club operations will not tow a glider unless the pilot confirms he/she has done a positive control check, which is part of the critical assembly check anyway.

Regulations and practices vary by country. Here in the U.S., we like to think we have the flexibility to survey what others are doing and then adopt their best practices, modifying and enhancing them as makes sense for our operating environment. As with most things in life, there is often not a single perfect or right way of doing things. What works for us would not necessarily work in other countries, but we have the satisfaction, I suppose, of knowing that certain things developed or popularized here have been adopted elsewhe e.g., some of the original turnpoint photography processes, start gates, tasking concepts, daily safety briefings at contests, etc. We're always seeking ways to make soaring safer while recognizing that preserving the freedom to fly the way we want is also important and must be balanced against that.

Chip Bearden
  #55  
Old June 30th 18, 05:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie Quebec
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Posts: 253
Default Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

I was referring to the pre flight cockpit check, or total lack of, not the daily inspection.
In our world, CHAOTIC check.
Controls
Harness
Airbrakes
Outside
Trim
Canopy
Controls
Cart.
  #56  
Old June 30th 18, 05:42 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie Quebec
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Posts: 253
Default Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

Regarding daily inspections, the GFA Has a series of training videos on YouTube. A pilot must complete the training before being
allowed to sign out a glider for a days flying. Usually a half day practical training course. An example below.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AmEnZBg8heE
  #57  
Old July 4th 18, 04:22 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
danlj
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Posts: 124
Default Stall, spin fatality today in Arizona.

On Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 7:28:17 AM UTC-5, Waveguru wrote:
He was on base, made several circles and climbed a little, and then broke into a spin. The standard cirus did about 2 revolutions before it hit the ground. This was no freak atmospheric event, except that the air is more turbulent near the ground. Don’t f*#~k around down low...

Boggs


Thanks for this note. I've been thinking about this accident all week.
Obviously, whenever the airplane does something unplanned, there are 3 categories of adverse influences:
- something wrong with the aircraft
- something wrong with the pilot
- something wrong with the air.
A big problem is that air is invisible. Yet it sometimes takes on small transient wrinkles that cause aircraft to move awkwardly.
I noticed in the video the bushes tossing and the pilots' clothing fluttering, and that it was sunny. This means that there were big and little wrinkles in the air.

Back when I thought I had to keep the yaw-string straight in a turn, thermal turbulence induced incipient spins more often than I could count.

On windy days, the vertical or horizontal torque in the air can be pretty strong. When thermaling low, all it takes is a momentary backwards-moving gust to stall a wing and induce a spin.

Can't see it, can't prove it, but I've felt it often.

My condolences. This is a risky sport.

Danl J
 




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