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Lycoming to approve 93 octane auto gas for O-360 & IO-360



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 8th 08, 06:47 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
[email protected]
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Posts: 111
Default Lycoming to approve 93 octane auto gas for O-360 & IO-360

Due to the problems of getting 100LL in many places, Lycoming is
seeking FAA approval for the standard compression engines to be able
to use 93 octane auto gas. Link to avweb article bellow. Sounds like
good news, since I have an O-360. Maybe airports will start to carry
it.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news..._198039-1.html

Regards,
Bud
  #2  
Old June 9th 08, 01:15 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
dave
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Posts: 37
Default Lycoming to approve 93 octane auto gas for O-360 & IO-360



wrote:
Due to the problems of getting 100LL in many places, Lycoming is
seeking FAA approval for the standard compression engines to be able
to use 93 octane auto gas. Link to avweb article bellow. Sounds like
good news, since I have an O-360. Maybe airports will start to carry
it.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news..._198039-1.html

Regards,
Bud


I suspect that Continental will follow.
It makes sense, with the price of avgas going through the roof more
people will think twice( or more) about flying and buying aircraft.

With more airports supplying more cost effective fuel it will help most
aspects of general aviation.
Maybe those FBOs which have been holding us small GA aircraft hostage
with their high prices for fuel will rethink things a little bit.
Thanks for the heads up Bud.


  #3  
Old June 9th 08, 02:46 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
Kyle Boatright
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Posts: 578
Default Lycoming to approve 93 octane auto gas for O-360 & IO-360


"Dave" wrote in message
...


wrote:
Due to the problems of getting 100LL in many places, Lycoming is
seeking FAA approval for the standard compression engines to be able
to use 93 octane auto gas. Link to avweb article bellow. Sounds like
good news, since I have an O-360. Maybe airports will start to carry
it.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news..._198039-1.html

Regards,
Bud


I suspect that Continental will follow.
It makes sense, with the price of avgas going through the roof more people
will think twice( or more) about flying and buying aircraft.

With more airports supplying more cost effective fuel it will help most
aspects of general aviation.
Maybe those FBOs which have been holding us small GA aircraft hostage with
their high prices for fuel will rethink things a little bit.
Thanks for the heads up Bud.


I discussed mogas with the local FBO owner a week or so ago. He is and has
been in a quandry over it. If he installs mogas pumps, it simply
cannibalizes his business on 100LL, and he still has to charge a buck more
than at the local gas station in order to pay the rental fees, insurance,
etc. on the additional tank and make a slight profit. Much of this is
because a small FBO just doesn't sell much gas, and therefore doesn't get a
great deal on fuel (which is being sold barely over cost at convenience
stores).

I fear that FBO owners everywhere are in a heck of a spot - shrinking
customer base, rising prices, and no alternatives that are sure fire
winners.

  #5  
Old June 9th 08, 10:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
nrp
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Posts: 128
Default Lycoming to approve 93 octane auto gas for O-360 & IO-360

Come on people! Wide areas of the country have access to alcohol-
free auto fuel. Usually it is a premium major brand source. It is
widely used at marinas and is also available to airports that take the
effort to request it from their suppliers.
  #6  
Old June 9th 08, 11:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
David Lesher
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Posts: 224
Default Lycoming to approve 93 octane auto gas for O-360 & IO-360

"JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe writes:

If you're O-360 happens to be in a Cherokee, you can already get an auto
gas STC. Otherwise, I wouldn't hold my breath on this Lycoming move. The
autogas spec they're trying to get approved can contain oxygenates (mainly
ethanol, now that MTBE is gone).


There is no real reason that FBO's can not get un-tainted gasoline. The
alcohols are added in when the truck is filled. The difficulties are
procedural not strategic...


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
  #7  
Old June 10th 08, 01:59 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
Mike Isaksen
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Posts: 242
Default Lycoming to approve 93 octane auto gas for O-360 & IO-360


"David L" wrote...
There is no real reason that FBO's can not get un-tainted
gasoline. The alcohols are added in when the truck is filled.
The difficulties are procedural not strategic...


Yes and no. Most trucks have residual when they return to the farm to
refill. Since most FBOs can't take the entire trailer, they will pay a
premium to the trucking firm for a dedicated partial load. That markup is
more than a few cents (more like 10 to 50 cents) per gallon, and then you'll
still get a small mix of residual.

The FBO is also not taking a trailer (or seven) a week, so every run is a
special. That means the trucking co will fit the FBO in with no guarantees.
So the FBO will need to schedule early (so as not to run out) and therefore
will take even a smaller load. Sometimes the load is so small the FBO will
have to take a mini, making the FBO pay for gas not taken.

Also, many of the Quicky Marts make more profits from the food and coffee,
than from the gas pumped. The FBO will not sell at such small margins, so
all said and done the Mogas will likely be a dollar to 1.50 higher than the
Quicky Mart. Now add in what Kyle B mentioned about the Mogas cutting into
the FBOs Avgas sales and it's a loser all around (for the FBO).

Damn those pesky details!


  #8  
Old June 10th 08, 02:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
dave
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Posts: 37
Default Lycoming to approve 93 octane auto gas for O-360 & IO-360



Mike Isaksen wrote:
"David L" wrote...
There is no real reason that FBO's can not get un-tainted
gasoline. The alcohols are added in when the truck is filled.
The difficulties are procedural not strategic...


Yes and no. Most trucks have residual when they return to the farm to
refill. Since most FBOs can't take the entire trailer, they will pay a
premium to the trucking firm for a dedicated partial load. That markup is
more than a few cents (more like 10 to 50 cents) per gallon, and then you'll
still get a small mix of residual.

The FBO is also not taking a trailer (or seven) a week, so every run is a
special. That means the trucking co will fit the FBO in with no guarantees.
So the FBO will need to schedule early (so as not to run out) and therefore
will take even a smaller load. Sometimes the load is so small the FBO will
have to take a mini, making the FBO pay for gas not taken.

Also, many of the Quicky Marts make more profits from the food and coffee,
than from the gas pumped. The FBO will not sell at such small margins, so
all said and done the Mogas will likely be a dollar to 1.50 higher than the
Quicky Mart. Now add in what Kyle B mentioned about the Mogas cutting into
the FBOs Avgas sales and it's a loser all around (for the FBO).

Damn those pesky details!


I really don't think that things are as gloomy as you put it.
i suspect that the fuel trucks are pretty capable of emptying their
trucks at their retailers. When 3000 gallons of fuel is ordered, I
suspect that 3000 gallons are put on the truck and delivered to it's
destination and the truck is emptied. Even if there were a few gallons
remaining, that amount of alcohol in 1000+ gallons of fuel is in the noise.
From the FBO's point of view, if there is a market for mogas, they will
be able to provide a service for it. If multiple FBO's sell mogas, then
competition will make the prices reasonable.
There are always those FBO's that really mark up their prices because
they have a captive crowd and those who would rather sell more fuel for
less of a price but make more money/profit in the end.
From the looks of it, there are more places in the country that provide
un-tainted fuel than sell tainted so the alcohol transport issue would
be a mute point for them.
I wouldn't be surprised if the major manufacturers of engines provided
approval for using mogas in their engines, some FBO's would switch to a
mogas only operation if the sales are there and they can't/won't provide
services for both types of fuels.

At this point this is all speculation on both sides of the fence, but I
can only see the good in offering alternative fuels for our aircraft at
a fair price.

I for one would fly more if the fuel were more reasonably priced and
help support the FBOs which offer affordable fuel.

Dave


  #9  
Old June 10th 08, 07:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning
nrp
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Posts: 128
Default Lycoming to approve 93 octane auto gas for O-360 & IO-360

How about the requirements for truck delivery of 100LL? I once
understand that there can be no other fuel on board the truck, and
that the tank(s) have to be flushed with 100 LL and the flushing
mixture thrown away (a hazardous waste?) before the airport load is
put in.
  #10  
Old June 10th 08, 02:01 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning
[email protected]
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Posts: 111
Default Lycoming to approve 93 octane auto gas for O-360 & IO-360

On Jun 9, 5:16*pm, David Lesher wrote:
"JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe writes:

* If you're O-360 happens to be in a Cherokee, you can already get an auto
gas STC. *Otherwise, I wouldn't hold my breath on this Lycoming move. *The
autogas spec they're trying to get approved can contain oxygenates (mainly
ethanol, now that MTBE is gone). *


There is no real reason that FBO's can not get un-tainted gasoline. The
alcohols are added in when the truck is filled. The difficulties are
procedural not strategic...

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433


That's the line I was thinking along. There are maybe a couple of
refineries making avgas. A very limited market. The rest are making
auto gas and blending it before delivery to the local quick mart. If
you wanted it unblended I don't think it would be a big problem. I can
see the problem Dave mentioned for the FBOs. Not sure how that will
play out.

Regards,
Bud
 




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