Dauntless Software/Safelog/Poison Pills

Until recently I have been quite a fan of Dauntless Software's products, having
used both their written test prep packages and their Safelog product. I have
recommended them here.

All good things come to an end, however. Beginning in May, the "free" Safelog
upgrades come with a poison pill. They have added a time limit after which you
have to pay to keep the software running. Most importantly, if you do not pay,
the software makes all of your logbook data inaccessible. If this is "Safelog"
I wonder what "Unsafelog" would be like.

This extortion scheme is not mentioned when you buy the product. On the
purchase page (http://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/register.asp) you are
promised a "full, unrestricted version."

So, any of you running Safelog who have not already gotten the poison pill
should be careful not to download any more updates. (Click the "Version and
Licensing" tab to see if you have gotten the poison. Read the fine print at the
bottom.) Anyone considering the _any_ of their products, caveat emptor.

I, for one, will not have my data held hostage by anyone -- especially an itty
bitty, dishonest, software company that could dry up and blow away tomorrow --
leaving my data locked up forever.

"Mitty" wrote in message


Beginning in May, the
"free" Safelog upgrades come with a poison pill. They have added a
time limit after which you have to pay to keep the software running. Most
importantly, if you do not pay, the software makes all of your
logbook data inaccessible. If this is "Safelog" I wonder what
"Unsafelog" would be like.
This extortion scheme is not mentioned when you buy the product. On
the purchase page
(http://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/register.asp) you are
promised a "full, unrestricted version."

I don't see where they offer an unrestricted version. However, one of the
annoying things I've noticed with this and similar software packages is the
extra fee for the mobile companion - quite unlike others I know of (hint,
hint .

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/blogs/TknoFlyer
http://sage1solutions.com/products
NEW! FlyteBalance v2.0 (W&B); FlyteLog v2.0 (Logbook)
____________________

Hello There,

I am one of the creators of Safelog (in fact, the lead designer, though we
are a small team now).

The gentleman's contention that Safelog has a "poison pill" is groundless.
While the vast bulk of our users have been perfectly understanding, a
(fortunately very) few users have clearly forgotten the clearly stated
license terms at the time of purchase, and are now venting via assorted
messageboards now that we have actually had the gall to enforce out terms
(after giving signigicant free extensions to the original terms).
Unfortunately, such aqueeky wheels tend to make a lot of noise on the
internet, but that doesn't mean that they're right.

While please understand that I won't be able to engage in any 'debate'
here, the reality is that our terms are and always were clearly spelled
out, and a complete licensing FAQ explains this on our website. We're a
small, honest company, and that a few disgruntled people should care to
characterize our actions as such is unfortunate and, frankly, unfair.
Additionally, no matter how you slice it, Safelog comes out cheaper than
any comparable serious pilot logbook software with similar features and
ease of use.

As far as the other gentleman's logbook software goes - may the best
logbook software win! I encourage all pilots to try all variants. We
work really hard at Safelog and are confident that it's a supremely
capable and versatile piece of logbook software that is also reasonably
priced. However, if some other logbook software works better for you,
please by all means use it!

About charging for PDA and other add-ons: this is only fair. After all,
if you don't use a PDA version, why should you subsidize somebody who
does? User pays is the best way. This is particularly important in that
Safelog now has PocketPC and PalmOS companion pieces, but will also soon
(if things go as scheduled) have Blackberry, Symbian (mobile phone), and
small-screen-size PocketPC companion pieces too, making it (as if it wasnt
already) by far the most vertaile software out there in terms of platforms.
Additionally, probably by the first or second week of October 2007, we
will be making public our Safelog web access portal. While the
functionality via the web portal will initially be similar to our PDA
clients in that it will be a way to log and sync flights while on the
road, over time this will be developed into something resembling a
standalone copy of Safelog, giving you potentailly true location
independence - so that no matter where you are - at home on your PC using
the PC client, on the web, or elsewhere, you will have access to the full
range of Safelog features.

As I see it now, we have every manner of useful functionality of all other
good logbook software except for two areas: One, we are a bit lacking in
airline schedule import and we could be a bit better in approach logging.
Both of these matters are in the process of being addressed. At the same
time, we have in aggregate far more features and far more INNOVATIVE
features than anybody else (given that we're lacking these two, all other
software that we know of is lacking far more). We try hard to keep the
balance between features and usability reasonable - you'd be hard pressed
to accuse our softawre of being bloated or hard to use. You'd also be
hard pressed to accuse us of sittig on our laurels - we continue to update
the software regularly, adding cool new features at the rate of a sub
release every month or so. Sorry to sound like a bit of an ad, but really
- you're welcome to try our demo to see if you like it.

I'm really proud of Safelog. I've been working and designing it since its
inception. It's good stuff and it will be bettter still in the future. We
have a fair and clearly stated license policy, though we have been the
subject of some vicious slander by people who are upset that we actually
had the gall at some point to begin enforcing this. If pilots reading
this are tempted to give any credence to such words, please do visit our
website (dauntless-soft.com) and read about it for yourself.

Again, I apologize that I will probably not be able to answer via this
forum. Certainly, it would be a waste of everybody's time for me to get
into some detailed discussion with one distraught user (out of many
thousands of happy ones) over licensing issues in a public form. However,
if you'd like to ask me questions directly, you can do so via our helpdesk
at

www.dauntless-soft.com/helpdesk

Blue Skies,

AC
CFI/ATP
Safelog Lead Designer
dauntless aviation

"This extortion scheme is not mentioned when you buy the product. On the
purchase page (http://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/register.asp)
you are
promised a "full, unrestricted version.""

This is a GROSS MISREPRESENTATION of reality based on selective quotation
and outright invention.

Our terms were made clear from the outset, and this gentleman's selective
quoting of the license terms does not change the reality.

Please see my other post in this thread for the reality of the situation.


I am actually sickened to my stomach reading the over-the-top dishonesty
and vile that
came from this person's keyboard. We have dealt fairly with all of our
customers the whole time -
that we should actually have the gall to actually enforce our
longstanding
and clearly stated license terms is no more dishonesty than your landlord
beginnig to finally charge you rent even though he let you stay a full
year free after your original lease expired. I'm sorry this gentleman
feels so angry, and, as per the other post, I categorically refuse to get
into some sort of ****ing match with him here, but thankfully most people
who will actually care to read the real situation will quickly realize
that his words are completely out of line.

As to his concernt that we are an 'itty bitty software company'. This is
true by Microsoft standards. However, even as a team of about two dozen
pilots, designers, and programmers, we are far larger than the
single-person operations that ALL of the other logbook software that we
know of are made by. We've been in business since 1996, and are getting
stronger every year on the back of honesty and good products, a few
unfortunate individuals who either don't read carefully or otherwise
choose to embarass themselves by spreading slander notwithstanding.

All the best,

AC
CFI/ATP
dauntless aviation

-----Original Message-----
From: DauntlessSoftware ]
Posted At: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:53 AM
Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
Conversation: Dauntless Software/Safelog/Poison Pills
Subject: Dauntless Software/Safelog/Poison Pills

....
We've been in business since 1996, and are getting
stronger every year on the back of honesty and good products, a few
unfortunate individuals who either don't read carefully or otherwise
choose to embarass themselves by spreading slander notwithstanding.

All the best,

AC
CFI/ATP
dauntless aviation

The individual (o/p) who was complaining the loudest seemed to be
worried about retrieving his data if he did not continue to pay for
renewals and updates.

You could alleviate his fears and his justification to complain if there
was a means of dumping the data from your application files into a
simple CSV format flat file that he could then do with as he pleases.

If that feature already exists, you could publish the procedure in this
thread and completely defuse the argument.

Of course the lack of a means to retrieve the data tends to bolster his
position which probably wouldn't be a good thing.

That's just the view from my porch...

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Zaleski ]
Posted At: Saturday, September 01, 2007 4:00 PM
Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
Conversation: Dauntless Software/Safelog/Poison Pills
Subject: Dauntless Software/Safelog/Poison Pills

....

I have used Safelog to record almost 14,000 hours of flight time. It
is, by far, the best of the electronic logbooks out there. It is
worth much more than the price it is sold for. I see nothing wrong
with a software company FINALLY enforcing its terms. They waited a
long time to do so, I see no reason to complain when asked to adhere
to established policy.

I have no association with, or connection to Dauntless. It is just
great software, whether Safelog, or the knowledge test stuff.


I don't disagree with you at all Bill. I was suggesting a means to quell
the complainers.

At the same time however, it would not be good design to develop a
program where the user could not export the data to some other format.
I've no experience with Safelog so I have to rely on users like you or
Dauntless to point that process out.

Hi Jim

Sorry it took me some time to reply. The ability to export the pilot
logbook data into CSV has been a standard feature of our software from
the beginning. We have really no interest in holding anybody's data
hostage, but rather simply to provide the best, most usable and useful
product out there. Any and all are welcome to export their data if
they feel that they can be better served elsewhere.

Fortunately, the complainers such as the gentleman above
notwithstanding, fortunately most pilots recognize that we have dealt
fairly at all times.

For what it's worth, i went back to look up the gentleman's claim of
the term "full, unrestricted version". This is actually how it appears
on our website: "[you get access to the ...] full, unrestricted
version of the software for your duration of your licenced-use
period." The selective misquote by the angry user above should give
you some sort of idea of what we're up against here. Again,
fortunately such people are outliers.

We have one competitor who makes a not bad piece of logbook software
in the same league as ours (there are also others, who sell lower
priced, but far less capable products). The competitor I speak up
charges for version upgrades and so forth, and if anybody would care
to do the math, you'd see that theirs comes out far more
expensively.


Blue Skies,

Adrian
dauntless aviation

-----Original Message-----
From: ]
Posted At: Thursday, September 06, 2007 6:49 AM
Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
Conversation: Dauntless Software/Safelog/Poison Pills
Subject: Dauntless Software/Safelog/Poison Pills

Hi Jim

Sorry it took me some time to reply. The ability to export the pilot
logbook data into CSV has been a standard feature of our software from
the beginning. We have really no interest in holding anybody's data
hostage, but rather simply to provide the best, most usable and useful
product out there. Any and all are welcome to export their data if
they feel that they can be better served elsewhere.

Fortunately, the complainers such as the gentleman above
notwithstanding, fortunately most pilots recognize that we have dealt
fairly at all times.

For what it's worth, i went back to look up the gentleman's claim of
the term "full, unrestricted version". This is actually how it appears
on our website: "[you get access to the ...] full, unrestricted
version of the software for your duration of your licenced-use
period." The selective misquote by the angry user above should give
you some sort of idea of what we're up against here. Again,
fortunately such people are outliers.

We have one competitor who makes a not bad piece of logbook software
in the same league as ours (there are also others, who sell lower
priced, but far less capable products). The competitor I speak up
charges for version upgrades and so forth, and if anybody would care
to do the math, you'd see that theirs comes out far more
expensively.


Blue Skies,

Adrian
dauntless aviation


Good response Adrian. Blanche also responded to another thread on this
topic with the steps for the exportation process. Between this and the
other thread, Mr. Mitty has very little justification for his
complaining. Hopefully this will be the end...