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#21
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Mechanical Vario
Must agree with Kirk on the quality of mechanical varios - I've not
flown a glider where the mechanical agrees with the electric! I suspect that on a lot of gliders the mechanical, being the back-up, doesn't get the TLC it needs to remain accurate (I'm sure they were when new). It may have been poor installation. If you run a pressure driven vario on the same TE line as a flow driven, then you may get some funny read outs. |
#22
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Mechanical Vario
Master Martin
The three Tasman V1000 varios in our club have to be the most reliable instruments we have. No moving parts, low power drain and they keep working down to ludicrous voltages. You did not mention it but the LX is also worth considering. In the club ships the mechanical varios get so battered they become less than helpful. You can re-center them and calibrate them, but mechanical things experience variation in manufacture and wear. I keep a Winter mechanical vario in my personal aircraft partly because I have had complete electrical failure in flight - and it is reassuring to have something that pretty much works as long as there is airflow. But if I am honest with myself, it is mainly because I hate holes in panels... When I bought the aircraft it had a Westerboer WV5KB vario that did not co-exist with the mechanical vario. Previous owner had installed restrictors and filters and any number of kludges, that effectively meant that you had two instruments that were pretty useless at all times. Removed the old electrical vario - it came from the days when having "transistors" was an advertising point and was wildly inaccurate. A simple split of the TE line about 1m from the instrument panel (under the seat) and the Tasman and Winter co-exist happily. Simple test using SeeYou to analyse after noting the averages show that the Tasman is remarkably accurate. Strangely the Tasman is often showing a lot more on the instantaneous readout than the Winter. Presumably this is because of some degree of mechanical damping. There are times when the mechanical sweep of the Winter can tell you things that the electronic vario can't - we are very good at assimilating and assessing the implications of movement. Conversely, I seldom use it because the audio is more use centring, and the averager display tells me much more about whether to persist. Once you go over to the dark side and start using the information the electronic vario can provide to a flight computer or PDA there is no going back. So - a modern solid state electronic vario is the way to go. If you need backup, get one with a separate or internal battery. There is little chance that a mechanical vario will be an improvement on that. Now if I could just convince the wife that I really NEED another gadget, maybe a LX160, or a B400 would be nice, and one o the club ships can have the Winter. Bruce Martin Gregorie wrote: wrote: On Sep 24, 5:54 am, wrote: On Sep 23, 1:25 pm, Jeff Runciman wrote: This question was posted earlier but I was hoping for a few more responses. Do I put a mechanical vario or do I save space on the panel. Would love to hear what people have in their panel. Jeff Hi Jeff - The ILEC SB-9 is a 2 1/4" self-contained backup vario with audio, and charges from the normal ship's power. That's what I have as a backup in my Antares 20E, though this glider has "more than adequate electrical power" available. Best Regards, Dave "YO" All I have is a Cambridge (I think) mechanical vario that i bought on RAS. I did make up a TE prob a la dick johnson plans last winter and it works as well as i could expect for a home made TE probe. Id love to add audio, anyone know a cheap source? eBay or other pilots replacing varios? Seriously, I'd look for a used Borgelt B40 (its now replaced by the B400 but still fully supported by Borgelt) or a Tasman V1000 (used or new). Both are relatively inexpensive. I've flown with and like both. The B40 has an internal battery for backup. The Tasman is pretty unbreakable thanks to its LCD display. Both have an averager: you push a button on the B40 to read average while the Tasman shows instantaneous and average all the time. Both make nice noises. the only other hole in my panel is sized for the vintage crossfell vario that was in the glider when i got it. How big is a Crossfell? Both the B40 and Tasman fit a 57mm (2 1/4") hole. |
#23
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Mechanical Vario
Owain Walters wrote:
I would always have a mechanical vario in my glider. I use the electric (audio) as an indicator that I should take a look at the far more accurate mechanical vario. So, how do you know it is "far more accurate"? The mechanical varios I'm familiar with change their calibration with altitude, but perhaps yours doesn't? -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA * Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly * "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4 * "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org |
#24
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Mechanical Vario
snip
Another way of asking the question could be "who has ever had their primary vario fail?" snip I have had the general Power failure version. I have also had the Bubble Bee impaled on the pitot failure. Since my primary vario is internally compensated this gave it some very strange readings. Fortunatly my B40 is compensated by a TE Probe. Brian CFIIG/ASEL HP16T N16VP |
#25
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Mechanical Vario
ILEC's are a bit more expensive, But I actually liked the Audio on it
better than the B40 I currently have. The ILEC (SB-7) was my primary vario in my 1-26 and I loved it. Brian HP16T N16VP |
#26
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Mechanical Vario
On Sep 24, 9:18 am, wrote:
On Sep 24, 5:54 am, wrote: Hi Jeff - The ILEC SB-9 is a 2 1/4" self-contained backup vario with audio, and charges from the normal ship's power. That's what I have as a backup in my Antares 20E, though this glider has "more than adequate electrical power" available. Best Regards, Dave "YO" All I have is a Cambridge (I think) mechanical vario that i bought on RAS. I did make up a TE prob a la dick johnson plans last winter and it works as well as i could expect for a home made TE probe. Id love to add audio, anyone know a cheap source? the only other hole in my panel is sized for the vintage crossfell vario that was in the glider when i got it. too bad it didnt work to well. it had a diaphragm TE system and ran on a couple D cells. Cambridge never made a mechanical vario, you are confused. A homemade TE probe works on a Cherokee because, well, it cannot really convert retained energy (ie, cannot do a high-speed pass). On anything resembling a modern glider (say, a Blanik), it is much less likely to work acceptably. The vintage Crossfell should be fine for the Cherokee, even without the TE diaphragm gizmo or proper TE probe... Nothing against the Cherokee or other vintage equipment, but its instrumentation needs are a bit different from what most readers here fly... Hope that helps clear up any confusion, Best Regards, Dave |
#27
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Mechanical Vario
On Sep 24, 9:11 pm, wrote:
On Sep 24, 9:18 am, wrote: On Sep 24, 5:54 am, wrote: Hi Jeff - The ILEC SB-9 is a 2 1/4" self-contained backup vario with audio, and charges from the normal ship's power. That's what I have as a backup in my Antares 20E, though this glider has "more than adequate electrical power" available. Best Regards, Dave "YO" All I have is a Cambridge (I think) mechanical vario that i bought on RAS. I did make up a TE prob a la dick johnson plans last winter and it works as well as i could expect for a home made TE probe. Id love to add audio, anyone know a cheap source? the only other hole in my panel is sized for the vintage crossfell vario that was in the glider when i got it. too bad it didnt work to well. it had a diaphragm TE system and ran on a couple D cells. Cambridge never made a mechanical vario, you are confused. A homemade TE probe works on a Cherokee because, well, it cannot really convert retained energy (ie, cannot do a high-speed pass). On anything resembling a modern glider (say, a Blanik), it is much less likely to work acceptably. The vintage Crossfell should be fine for the Cherokee, even without the TE diaphragm gizmo or proper TE probe... Nothing against the Cherokee or other vintage equipment, but its instrumentation needs are a bit different from what most readers here fly... Hope that helps clear up any confusion, Best Regards, Dave I didnt know that there was any confusion. The more I thought about it the more I realized that I have a Winter not a Cambridge. The Crossfell did work OK but the scaling was off, like it never ever showed more than 1 m/s and it would show down when I was going up. Both of these issues may have been due to not enough voltage and reversed polarity. |
#28
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Mechanical Vario
On Sep 25, 3:01 am, Owain Walters
wrote: Because while the electric is flailing around the mechnical gives indications that match what is happening with a timed average. So what you are saying is that you use your mechanical as an averager. Which is fine, but doesn't say much for the accuracy of the vario! Whilst I agree electric varios are much better than they used to be (I fly with a LX7000) I have always, and still do, find that my mechanical gives a much more 'real world' reading than an electric. Which leads to an interesting point - it isn't so much the actual reading on the vario that is important, as the ease of using the data presented to climb more efficiently. So the whole "accuracy" argument is a bit ridiculous. If it is really sensitive, it overreacts to gusts. If it is highly damped, it's an averager. That's why I want the audio, to let my brain (and butt) figure out the gusts from the surges and center accordingly. Tough while staring at a needle on a mechanical that hasn't been looked at much before, after the needle on the ubervario MK 69 falls off... To be fair, the altitude thing is rarely an issue where I fly...! Owain I hear you! Nothing like setting off XC at 2000' agl to make you appreciate a good vario. Cheers, Kirk 66 |
#29
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Mechanical Vario
On Sep 25, 10:51 am, "kirk.stant" wrote:
.... Which leads to an interesting point - it isn't so much the actual reading on the vario that is important, as the ease of using the data presented to climb more efficiently. So the whole "accuracy" argument is a bit ridiculous. If it is really sensitive, it overreacts to gusts. If it is highly damped, it's an averager. That's why I want the audio, to let my brain (and butt) figure out the gusts from the surges and center accordingly. Tough while staring at a needle on a mechanical that hasn't been looked at much before, after the needle on the ubervario MK 69 falls off... .... Cheers, Kirk 66 One thing that bugs me about my mechanical (a winter) is that it always over states the lift, which is important when deciding to take a thermal or not. The damn thing generally tells me 6 knots, when it is only 3-4 steady on the averager ! I need the re-paint the face plate :-) Todd Smith 3S |
#30
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Mechanical Vario
I hear you! Nothing like setting off XC at 2000' agl to make you appreciate a good vario. hmmm maybe thats what my problem has been this year |
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