Maintaining VFR altitudes when following N/S roads/rivers

"Dave S" wrote in message
...
Bob F. wrote:

If you are below 3000' agl,
then the VFR cruising rule doesn't apply.


Is that a US only rule or universal? They refer to lots of lower altitudes
as flight levels over there in Europe where mx is..

I can only reference FAR 91.159. Someone familiar with Europe will have to
answer that side.

--
Regards, Bob F.

In rec.aviation.student BT wrote:
What you are doing is not pilotage.
Fly a straight line based on compass and wind correction computations.
Time between visual points, towns, bridges, etc to compute ground speed.
Correct the heading slightly based on "observations" from pilotage.

just following a meandering river or road is not pilotage.

My understanding is that you have just described dead reckoning with
occasional corrections coming from pilotage. Pure pilotage is simply
knowing where you are by looking out the window. When on the move, you
just keep looking out the window and keep updating your mental picture of
where you are. You may make mental estimates based on this of how long it
will be to get to the next landmark, but if you're doing actual
computation then you're beyond mere pilotage already.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

"Bob F." wrote in message
. ..



Maybe I'm like the blind man touching the elephant here since I don't have
a lot of experience with him. So maybe I'll play along for a while and see
how it goes.

You are wasting your time. He is an idiot and a troll. He lives to string
along peoplre who take him seriously.

Dave S writes:

Is that a US only rule or universal? They refer to lots of lower
altitudes as flight levels over there in Europe where mx is..

The rules vary elsewhere, but I "fly" only in the United States, since I know
the regulations there better, and they don't change every 300 miles, and I'm
more familiar with regions in the U.S.

The rules in France are stranger, and they change from country to country, and
Europe in general is very messy in this respect, so I just don't "fly" there.

If I were ever to get a pilot's license, it would be in the U.S. Since I
don't live in the U.S., that's one reason why I don't try to get a pilot's
license (but it's not the most important reason).

Anyway, back to the topic ... it's true that I can fly in the general
direction of a road instead of following it precisely, but I find that it's
easy to get so far away that it's hard to see the road any more. Some
Interstates will turn west for miles, and then turn east again, and so on.
They stay in one direction long enough to get away from you if you are trying
to keep an "average" heading, but if you turn you have to change altitude.
Climbing and descending 2000 feet every few minutes seems like a lot for a
small aircraft.

I haven't seen anything in the FARs that provides a way around this for cruise
flight, except, as Bob has pointed out, flying below 3000 AGL. That would
work well enough in Iowa, and then the problem is solved. But over hilly
terrain it gets more difficult, and also other rules come into play for
low-altitude flight, such as the need to respect limitations over congested
areas, wildlife preserves, etc.

So, I am open to suggestions, and I'd like to hear how other pilots (real or
virtual) deal with this.

BT writes:

What you are doing is not pilotage.
Fly a straight line based on compass and wind correction computations.
Time between visual points, towns, bridges, etc to compute ground speed.
Correct the heading slightly based on "observations" from pilotage.

just following a meandering river or road is not pilotage.

Pilotage is supposedly navigation by visual landmarks, which presumably
includes roads and rivers. Successful pilotage implies that you can navigate
with just the visual features and a chart. If you are using calculations to
determine your position, it's more like dead reckoning. I do try to navigate
that way, too, but periodically I like to practice navigation by visual
features on the land below alone.

Bob Noel writes:

An aircraft without DME, LORAN, and GPS may wish to stay out of the Boston
Class Bravo airspace. An excellent way to do that is follow 495 around Boston.
For those that want the torture, I know it can be done with just one VOR.

I see that the 495 is almost north-south (magnetic) in some portions. How do
you manage your altitude when flying that portion of the highway?

A more difficult situation arises when the highway meanders substantially back
and forth from east to west, constantly crossing 360 or 180 degrees. If it's
in hilly country (as it might well be if it has to meander back and forth),
just setting a single heading might not be an option, as you can easily lose
sight of the highway. So, in that case, how does one manage altitude?

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...

The rules vary elsewhere, but I "fly" only in the United States, since I
know
the regulations there better, and they don't change every 300 miles, and
I'm
more familiar with regions in the U.S.

You don't fly anywhere, you're nothing but a simmer flying a desk. If you
knew anything about the US regs, you wouldn't be asking the question.

Dave S wrote in :

Bob F. wrote:

If you are below 3000' agl,
then the VFR cruising rule doesn't apply.


Is that a US only rule or universal? They refer to lots of lower
altitudes as flight levels over there in Europe where mx is..


It's common in many parts of the world, but it's not universal. Th eBirts
use a quadtrantal rule, for instance, and in some countries th edivision
isn't N/S but E/W (Spain, for one, and Sweden has some funky rules too.


Bertie

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
BT writes:

What you are doing is not pilotage.
Fly a straight line based on compass and wind correction computations.
Time between visual points, towns, bridges, etc to compute ground speed.
Correct the heading slightly based on "observations" from pilotage.

just following a meandering river or road is not pilotage.

Pilotage is supposedly navigation by visual landmarks, which presumably
includes roads and rivers. Successful pilotage implies that you can
navigate
with just the visual features and a chart. If you are using calculations
to
determine your position, it's more like dead reckoning. I do try to
navigate
that way, too, but periodically I like to practice navigation by visual
features on the land below alone.

If you are such a scholar on navigation, why are you asking dumb assed
questions?

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Dave S writes:

Is that a US only rule or universal? They refer to lots of lower
altitudes as flight levels over there in Europe where mx is..

The rules vary elsewhere, but I "fly" only in the United States,


You don't fly, period, fjukkkktard.



Bertie