Curious incident :)

Saw an amusing incident today at the Dubai Airport; hadn't ever seen
such a thing earlier.

A Dragonair 747 taxied on to the east-west aligned runway at the
western end. Although the runway threshold is just east of that point,
the aircraft turned west and did a 180 at the adjoining circular tarmac
pad. Just as it centered on the runway, a FedEx MD-11 landed from above
in front of it. I noticed that the MD-11 had barely begun its turn on
the exit at the far end when smoke came off the 747 tires. The takeoff
roll had begun.

Though the runway sequence was very time-efficient, it left me feeling
that it'd have been fun had the MD-11 come slightly low in the
glideslope or encountered mild windshear )

How often does such a sequence happen where you live?

Ramapriya

In a previous article, "Ramapriya" said:
in front of it. I noticed that the MD-11 had barely begun its turn on
the exit at the far end when smoke came off the 747 tires. The takeoff
roll had begun.

Since when does smoke come of the tires of a plane starting its takeoff
roll? I can't think of any way that could happen.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I think I have a new personal rule: Never watch anything which includes
the author's name in the title, particularly if the author is dead.
-- Andrew Dalgleish

Paul Tomblin wrote:
In a previous article, "Ramapriya" said:
in front of it. I noticed that the MD-11 had barely begun its turn on
the exit at the far end when smoke came off the 747 tires. The takeoff
roll had begun.

Since when does smoke come of the tires of a plane starting its takeoff
roll? I can't think of any way that could happen.



If I understood the OP correctly, the 747 was starting its takeoff roll
as an MD11 landed in front of him. The 747 probably hit the brakes
really hard.

To answer the original question (have I seen this before?): no, never. I
was once cleared into position and hold, but spotted traffic on short
final, so I held short, and told the controller about it. He apologized,
moments later a different controller replaced him.

This has happened in the USA though. You may all remember the 737 that
landed on top of a Brasilia (or some turboprop) at LAX in the late 80's.

-jav

Javier Henderson wrote:

If I understood the OP correctly, the 747 was starting its takeoff roll
as an MD11 landed in front of him. The 747 probably hit the brakes
really hard.


No, quite certain that that didn't happen. From what I saw, the 747
stood there waiting for the MD-11 to land and exit before taking off.
He probably chose to enter the runway because that portion was beyond
the threshold.

Not sure if I've conveyanced in words correctly here :\


This has happened in the USA though. You may all remember the 737 that
landed on top of a Brasilia (or some turboprop) at LAX in the late 80's.


Ah, but there's likely a difference here, as I've said above. The
aircraft in this instance was holding *beyond* the threshold.

Ramapriya

"Ramapriya" wrote

No, quite certain that that didn't happen. From what I saw, the 747
stood there waiting for the MD-11 to land and exit before taking off.
He probably chose to enter the runway because that portion was beyond
the threshold.

Not sure if I've conveyanced in words correctly here :\

I also can not imagine what could cause what you said. You said smoke left
the tires of the 747? What would cause tires of a stopped aircraft (just
beginning to roll) to smoke?
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:

I also can not imagine what could cause what you said. You said smoke left
the tires of the 747? What would cause tires of a stopped aircraft (just
beginning to roll) to smoke?

Giving it full power before fully releasing the brakes?

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

Paul Tomblin wrote:

Since when does smoke come of the tires of a plane starting its takeoff
roll? I can't think of any way that could happen.


Don't know about you but I've seen puffs come off aircraft tires, at
the start of the takeoff roll, often enough; it probably happens when
pilots advance the throttle a bit before releasing the brakes.

Ramapriya

"Ramapriya" wrote in message
oups.com...
Paul Tomblin wrote:

Since when does smoke come of the tires of a plane starting its takeoff
roll? I can't think of any way that could happen.

My thoughts exactly.

Don't know about you but I've seen puffs come off aircraft tires, at
the start of the takeoff roll, often enough; it probably happens when
pilots advance the throttle a bit before releasing the brakes.

I've never seen that, nor even heard of it. The proposed explanation you
suggest certainly wouldn't do it. Smoke comes off the tires during
touchdown because of the speed difference between the tire and the pavement,
until the tire "catches up".

During takeoff, even if the brakes are held, and even if the tires slide a
bit (which is very unlikely...usually the locked wheels can hold the
airplane still), they wouldn't smoke. They'd just rub a bunch of rubber
onto the pavement.

If you saw smoke during the takeoff roll, it came from somewhere other than
the tires.

Pete

Pete

The F-101B had enough engine power that if you held the brakes and ran
up and plugged the burners in it rotated the tires on the rim(s) and
blew them.You could see smoke as they skidded down the R/W.


Technique was to run up to around 80% and check gauges and release
brakes and advance throttle(s) to 100% and plug the burners in.

TOR was less than 1000 feet on a standard day.

Big John
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:03:22 -0800, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

"Ramapriya" wrote in message
roups.com...
Paul Tomblin wrote:

Since when does smoke come of the tires of a plane starting its takeoff
roll? I can't think of any way that could happen.

My thoughts exactly.

Don't know about you but I've seen puffs come off aircraft tires, at
the start of the takeoff roll, often enough; it probably happens when
pilots advance the throttle a bit before releasing the brakes.

I've never seen that, nor even heard of it. The proposed explanation you
suggest certainly wouldn't do it. Smoke comes off the tires during
touchdown because of the speed difference between the tire and the pavement,
until the tire "catches up".

During takeoff, even if the brakes are held, and even if the tires slide a
bit (which is very unlikely...usually the locked wheels can hold the
airplane still), they wouldn't smoke. They'd just rub a bunch of rubber
onto the pavement.

If you saw smoke during the takeoff roll, it came from somewhere other than
the tires.

Pete

"Big John" wrote in message
...
The F-101B had enough engine power that if you held the brakes and ran
up and plugged the burners in it rotated the tires on the rim(s) and
blew them.You could see smoke as they skidded down the R/W.

Hardly relevant to the question of what happens at the *very start* of a
takeoff roll of a transport category airplane. Even in the case of the much
higher power-to-weight ratio of the F-101B (or other fighters, for that
matter), the smoke doesn't occur immediately upon power-up.

Pete