Gasohol

On May 30, 7:13 pm, "Blueskies" wrote:
Is it true that there is no longer any requirement to label gasoline contaminated with alcohol?

Good article hehttp://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Gasoline.html

I just did the add water to gas test on a couple of local gas sources and all contain alcohol, and none of the pumps
said anything about it. The feds just dropped the requirement to label the pumps and we all missed it?

Jay, where do you fill the grape from and how do you know there is no evil alcohol in it?

When MTBE was outlawed, the only feasable alternative to add oxygen to
gasoline was alcohol. This is mandated in ceartin parts of the
country - mostly the east and west coasts plus mant of the major
cities. Many states have followed suit and now require 5 or 10%
alcohol to be add to auto gas. Some states require that the retail
pumps lable that the gasoline contains alcohol - some states do not.
Currently retailers can save money by adding alcohol to the gasoline
because the alcohol is less expensive than gasoline, so they can blen
it in and sell it to you as auto gasoline - you may not know it. Any
percentage of alcohol in the gasoline will void your auto gas STC.
There are many pushing for a national requirement for alcohol to be
added to auto gas.

Non alcohol auto gas will be available for FBO's to purchase and sell
as auto gas for aviation, but anyone buying auto gas at a retial
outlet and taking it to the airport in 5 gallon containers will need
to check it for alcohol. EAA has a method on line to tell you how to
check it. I recently did a presentation on auto gas with alcoho for
an aviation group, added 10% alcohol to pure 87 octane auto gas - then
some samples I added water - then lowered the temps on all samples to
below freezing.

First thing was that the alcohol would not stay mixed with the auto
gas - it would seperate out. Second thing is that alcohol absorbs
water - so you could not see the water in the alcohol/auto gas
mixture, but when the temp was lowered to below freezing the water
froze and ice settled out to the bottom.

All said - I will not be using auto gas in my plane - it looked like
an easy way to have a line freeze and turn the plane into a glider.

an easy way to have a line freeze and turn the plane into a glider.

Then why don't cars have line freezing trouble with E-10 gas? Here in
Minnesota, gas line freezeups have essentially disappeared because of
the mandated E-10. It is the only good thing about gasahpol
though...........

I think a major reason not to use E-10 in certificated aircraft is the
~5% power reduction.

On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 21:55:58 -0400, "Peter Dohm"
wrote:

..

Really, the only way that I know to correctly "do the science" is to
purchase a small amount (perhaps a liter) of anhydrous ethanol from a
medical supply and perform a series of tests on a variety of
samples--including samples of known pure and dry avgas and mogas. For the
moment, I am unwilling to undertake the project, and also I believe that
Clare and Bob are correct.

Peter

Definitive test for water in fuel.
Get some copper sulphate chystals. Put them in a warm oven untill they
are totally white. Store in a sealed dry container. Place a few
crystals in your check bottle and add fuel. If the crystal turns blue,
YOU HAVE WATER.Can't tell you how much, but if it stays white the gas
is DRY.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 22:16:03 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:



How sure are we that the gasohol in service station tanks contain no water?
I would never bet on it.
Is it possible that all tanks containing gasohol contain at least some water
dissolved?
Extremely likely, from past experience (pumping gas decades ago)
Is it a certainty that the alcohol added to gasoline contains no dissolved
water?
No. Definitely NOT a certainty.
I don't know the answer to any of these questions. Does anyone know, for
CERTAIN, any of these questions?

My guess is that all service station tanks, (unless they have never had
straight gas, and that they are BRAND NEW) have had an opportunity to get
some water in their tanks. If that is the case, and you put gasohol in
them, the gasohol samples will contain some dissolved water, and the seltzer
test will work.

If that is the case, doing a scientific test with clean gas and adding water
free alcohol will prove nothing.
Except you can NEVER say NEVER, and ALWAYS avoid ALWAYS.
It is POSSIBLE you may GET totally dry gasohol. The probability that
it will remain dry is slim.(alcohol is hygroscopic - it attracts and
binds water)


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Well, lemmee give ya a very simple example of cahoots...

First picture the double bottom fuel tanker... He goes to the terminal
and loads premium gas for Chevron in the front tanker and premium gas
for Shell in the back tanker... The computer adds the dyes,
carcinogenic additives, and alcohol, and off he goes... Each company
runs advertising on how its premium is better than anyone elses
premium because of the companies expertise and care in every step of
the production process - and how they search the world for the best
crude - and oh yes, they are GREEN to boot...

Your gas actually comes from the same generic tank fed off a generic
pipeline from a generic refinery, that every branded and unbranded
gas station in the area buys from, each putting their own name on
it...
The FTC is happy with this...
The Atty General of the Hew Hess of Hey is happy with this...
The states Atty General's are happy with this...

Now picture Chivas Regal and Jack Daniels - and it comes to light
Woodward and Bernstein strike again that they are not actually
fermenting and distilling their own booze but are buying white
lightning from an industrial alcohol distillery in Trinidad and
Tobaggo same one that supplies it for gasohol and shipping it here
in converted petroleum tankers, whereupon they each runit through
charcoal, add coloring and flavoring, and each bottle it under their
own label...
The FTC and the combined Atty Generals will be good with that?
No way, mon! There will be executives in hand cuffs testifying in
front of Congress...
But if it is big oil? - well golly gee it's just a business decision
wink, wink, nudge...

denny - who is old enough to see the wool over his eyes

Peter Dohm wrote:

According to annecdotes that I heard many years ago, service station gas
tanks have always contained some water--but since the gasolene is lighter,
the water settled to the bottom, so they were able to draw straight gasolene
from a floating pickup. According to those annecdotes, there could have
been as much as a couple of feet on water below the gasolene before it was
drawn of as part of periodic maintenance, with the result that the apparatus
were designed to shut off with a considerable level of liquid remaining in
the tanks--in order to avoid pumping water.

Speaking as someone who pumped gas to earn tuition money back in the
early 60s before there was gasahol, we'd 'stick' the tanks daily at
closing time to verify the amount in the tanks. There was always some
water that was evident at the bottom of the stick, but it was never more
than an inch or so.

On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 11:26:38 -0400, Cubdriver usenet AT danford DOT
net wrote:

On Sat, 2 Jun 2007 10:38:20 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:

I'll bet it really lasts a loooong time in your snow blower, this time of
year! ggg

And that, indeed, is the point of the exercise!

The denatured gasoline evidently starts breaking down in a month.
Straight gas in a year.

I never drain the tanks on my lawn morwer, snow blower, yard tractor,
or push lawn mower. I've never seen car gas break down even after
several years.

What I have seen is the stuff evaporate in the carburetors and leave a
shelac. However I always turn off the gas and run the carbs dry. The
next season I turn the gase on, wait a few minutes, prime and pull.
They usually start on the first pull.



Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
forthcoming from HarperCollins www.flyingtigersbook.com

The denizens of this ng have known and discussed this for some time now,
sir. WHere have you been?

Jim

--
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world.
Those who count in binary and those who don't

"Denny" wrote in message
oups.com...


The joke on us all is that gas pumped to your local distribution
terminal has no alcohol in it... At the distribution terminal are huge
tanks of gas, and smaller tnaks of alcohol, dye, additives, etc...
The driver pulls up with his tanker... Keys in who the gas is for
Shell, Marathon, ETC.and what the octane rating is and the computer
selects the appropriate base stock of gasoline and mixes in the proper
additives and dyes as it pumps the load to his tanker, including the
alcohol... We are being hosed by the oil companies, in cahoots with
the government, in more ways than just price...

Dave Butler wrote:

Speaking as someone who pumped gas to earn tuition money back in the
early 60s before there was gasahol, we'd 'stick' the tanks daily at
closing time to verify the amount in the tanks. There was always some
water that was evident at the bottom of the stick, but it was never
more than an inch or so.

The only way we knew it to be "evident" was to put the paste on the stick
and note a color change...

I used to pump gas in the 70's, later I serviced the pumps and fuel systems
themselves (80's)...

Sportys used to sell a test kit that contained a chemical that would turn
purple if added to a fuel sample that was gasahol.

I have no idea of what the chemical was. It was a very easy to test the
fuel. They claim that their supplier no longer exists. I bought a bunch of
the kits and have about 1/2 a vial of the chemical left.

I sure would like to know what the reagent is that was used.

Cheers:

Paul
N1431A