Turn to Final - Keeping Ball Centered

"skym" wrote in message
...
While making a turn to base and final recently, I was aware that I was
going to be wide with my normal turn from downwind through base to
final, so I banked more to keep as close to the runway centerline as
possible. I kept thinking about the infamous and usually fatal stall/
spin by some pilots in this situation, I kept thinking that if I keep
the ball centered, even with a very steep bank, that I would be ok and
not auger in. Some of you instructors and old pros...is this correct?
(Not that I intend to make it a practice.)

Instead of asking about keeping the ball centered, perhaps you should be
asking why you elected to flirt with a pilot error fatality by cranking and
yanking for the sake of a few style points... So what if you overshoot the
turn????

Note: as others are beating to death - stall speed doesn't change with bank.
Stall speed changes with increasing G (increasing lift). Increasing G comes
from pulling on the yoke/stick. Period. No pull, no G, no increase in stall.
More pull, more G, higher stall. Wings level, wings banked, wings upside
down - makes no difference.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

What are two options to preventing a stall (regardless of whether a
spin in entered)?

1)Keep your airspeed up
2)ncrease power and keep your airspeed up

I would have said get the nose down (increase airspeed)
and go-around (not far from your #2.

Ron Lee

"Ron Lee" wrote in message
...
skym wrote:
...
What happens to stall speed as your bank angle increases?

Nothing. Stall speed changes with G's which are caused by pulling on the
stick - not by bank angle.

What are two options to preventing a stall (regardless of whether a
spin in entered)?

1) Don't pull.
2) Keep the speed up.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Exactly. The difference between a loaded turn and simply allowing the nose to
fall through with reduced back pressure.

Reducing back pressure is something an inexperienced pilot is instinctively
loath to do when manuvering close to the ground, much more likely to be pulling.

Vaughn

Vaughn Simon wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Exactly. The difference between a loaded turn and simply allowing the nose to
fall through with reduced back pressure.

Reducing back pressure is something an inexperienced pilot is instinctively
loath to do when manuvering close to the ground, much more likely to be pulling.

Vaughn


This is an issue where I have seen evidence on both sides. It is
entirely dependent on the caliber of training a student pilot is
subjected to in the stall curve.
All instructors should be teaching and ingraining in every student they
teach that stall recovery REGARDLESS OF ALTITUDE is entirely dependent
on reducing angle of attack. This is especially true at low altitude
where recovery can be a matter of using every inch of available air
under the airplane to recover.
Instructors should be EMPHASIZING to every student this all important
aspect of a low altitude stall.
By the time an instructor is finished teaching stall recovery to a
student, that student should have the stall recovery habit pattern
BURNED into their very being.......so much in fact that their natural
reaction to ANY stall is to recover by reducing angle of attack so that
the reaction is to do this instead of pulling back.
To accomplish this, instructors have to demonstrate to every student
again and again proper stall recovery using all available means....angle
of attack reduction, coordinated aileron and rudder (for modern GA
airplanes) and power. This should be practiced with emphasis on the
regaining of angle of attack BEFORE initiating recovery. As this
pertains to low altitude recovery, the instructor should emphazize again
and again that recovery in this scenario might very well mean the
lowering of the nose when the raising of the nose is the natural reaction.

Many....many...pilots have been killed outright trying to recover from a
low altitude stall when extending the recovery closer to the ground to
assure regaining of angle of attack was the proper thing to do.

The answer to this issue is in proper training by instructors with the
goal of CHANGING through this training the natural reaction to recover
too early in low altitude stalls.

I consider the imparting of this attitude in a student pilot a critical
aspect of stall recovery training.
I can't emphasize it's importance enough to new instructors.

--
Dudley Henriques

Gig 601XL Builder wrote in
:

Ken S. Tucker wrote:
and as it turned
out the fella was gov qualified to license me,
which he did.
Ken

Which one is you?

Total Names found for KEN TUCKER is 22.


KENNETH CARDEN TUCKER KENNETH EDWARD TUCKER
KENNETH W TUCKER KENDALL JOHN TUCKER
KENNETH EDWARD TUCKER KENNETH RAY TUCKER
KENNETH W TUCKER KENNETH THOMAS TUCKER
KENNETH RICHARD TUCKER KENNETH DALE TUCKER
KENNETH E TUCKER KENNETH J TUCKER
KENNETH JOHN TUCKER KENT HOWARD TUCKER
KENNETH W TUCKER KENNETH WAYNE TUCKER
KENT DAVID TUCKER KENT LEE TUCKER
KENNETH ROYAL TUCKER KENNETH CLAYTON TUCKER
KENNETH STEVEN TUCKER KENNETH HAROLD TUCKER

Gee. There is no KEN ****HEAD TUCKER. The Ken S. Tucker who keeps
posting here has been shown to be a total imposter. Good job!

On Mar 13, 9:53*am, wrote:


My instrument flight test required level steep turns partial panel, which I
assume was 45 degrees or more. *

How do you judge a 45 degree bank angle with just a TC as you would
have with partial panel (no AH)?

Cheers

On Mar 13, 11:22 am, (Ron Lee) wrote:
What are two options to preventing a stall (regardless of whether a
spin in entered)?

1)Keep your airspeed up
2)ncrease power and keep your airspeed up

I would have said get the nose down (increase airspeed)
and go-around (not far from your #2.

And go off with an instructor to 3,500 AGL and rehearse the steep
descending turn manoeuvre until you are happy with your understanding
of the situation..

"WingFlaps" wrote in message
...
My instrument flight test required level steep turns partial panel, which I
assume was 45 degrees or more.

How do you judge a 45 degree bank angle with just a TC as you would
have with partial panel (no AH)?

In VFR with no gyros, you line up two diagonal instrument mounting screws
with the horizon. (old glider trick)

Vaughn

On Mar 13, 1:16*pm, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:
"WingFlaps" wrote in message

...

My instrument flight test required level steep turns partial panel, which I
assume was 45 degrees or more.

How do you judge a 45 degree bank angle with just a TC as you would
have with partial panel (no AH)?

* *In VFR with no gyros, you line up two diagonal instrument mounting screws
with the horizon. *(old glider trick)



As I read it, this is not VFR it's an IF test...

Cheers