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In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

Condoning lawlessness within the nation's prison systems is
reprehensible as it condones crime not the rule of law.

I agree.

The intent of punishment for criminal behavior should be
rehabilitation, not vengeance.

Punishment is not necessarily vengeance.

Rehabilitation is not vengeance.

Tossing someone in jail also (should) have a side-effect of protecting
society from a criminal (at least until rehabilitated).

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:28:24 -0400, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
Why isn't incarceration alone fitting punishment for burglary? Why
don't you see anal rape as falling under the "cruel and unusual" group
of impermissible punishments?

It is my understanding this is not unusual at all in today's jails and prisons.
All the more reason not to do anything to get thrown into one.


So you think the US military's behavior in Abu Grave was appropriate?

Where? Never heard of any such place.

Matt

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 06:46:29 -0400, Bob Noel
wrote in
:

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

Condoning lawlessness within the nation's prison systems is
reprehensible as it condones crime not the rule of law.

I agree.


At last, the voice of reason. Thank you.

The intent of punishment for criminal behavior should be
rehabilitation, not vengeance.

Punishment is not necessarily vengeance.

Rehabilitation is not vengeance.


But intentionally permitting the anal rape of inmates to intensify the
repugnance of incarceration is a form of vengeance, IMO.

Tossing someone in jail also (should) have a side-effect of protecting
society from a criminal (at least until rehabilitated).

If the convicted criminal is removed from society and jailed, the
public is protected from that criminal until s/he is released. Or am
I overlooking something?

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:52:03 GMT, Matt Whiting
wrote in :

So you think the US military's behavior in Abu Grave was appropriate?

Where? Never heard of any such place.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle739348.ece
US to close Abu Ghraib 'torture prison'

In a report leaked in April, 2004, Major General Antonia Taguba of
the US Army concluded that soldiers had committed "egregrious acts
and grave breaches of law". He reported "sadistic, blatant and
wanton ciminal abuses" of prisoners.

The most notorious case was that of Private Lynddie England who
was jailed for three years after a picture of her holding a naked
inmate on a dog lead was circulated around the world.

The subsequent political scandal caused tremendous damage to the
public image of the coalition forces, with critics arguing that it
was representative of a broader American attitude towards Iraqis.

Thousands of people are held on suspicion of guerrilla activity
for many months. The United Nations and Iraqi ministers have
complained that the system is an abuse of human rights.

Larry Dighera wrote:
Larry Dighera wrote:
Why isn't incarceration alone fitting punishment for burglary? Why
don't you see anal rape as falling under the "cruel and unusual" group
of impermissible punishments?


It is my understanding this is not unusual at all in today's jails and
prisons. All the more reason not to do anything to get thrown into one.


So you think the US military's behavior in Abu Grave was appropriate?
You have no respect for the rule of law.


You're changing the subject. 1) Abu Ghraib isn't in our country and Americans
aren't incarcerated there. 2) If any raping was going on in Abu Ghraib, it was
the Iraqis doing it. But now that you mention it, nobody can think of "cruel
and unusual punishments" like a Middle Easterner. In the scheme of things, the
GI guards acted very poorly (so we lost the moral high ground) but nobody
suffered anywhere nearly as much under the GI guards compared to Saddam's.
Humiliation just isn't in the same category with what those sadistic *******s
did every day there.


I'm reacting to this crass statement:

On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 20:22:36 -0000, wrote in
.com:

Well, now these young men get to find out what its like in an
ass-pounding prison...

Please try to keep up with the discussion.

Condoning lawlessness within the nation's prison systems is
reprehensible as it condones crime not the rule of law. Can't you see
that?


Well, too bad. Don't want to enjoy a romantic interlude with Bubba tonight?
Don't hold up the 7-11 today.


The intent of punishment for criminal behavior should be
rehabilitation, not vengeance. I believe restitution should play a
large role in sentencing. That way a criminal sees that s/he does not
benefit from their criminal acts, but compensates victims instead.


A fine idea. Who shall the criminal rob to come up with the compensation?


The chances of rehabilitating a first time offender through brutality
are nil. It only fosters resentment not contrition.


If it were the guards doing the brutality, I'd say you were right. But it's the
inmates themselves. If they want to avoid feeling resentful, they can stop
beating, killing and raping each other. But they're criminals... they can't
help themselves. Frankly, I don't care about whether they're rehabilitated.
It's enough that they're removed from society. And frankly, unpleasant
consequences can have a preventative effect, if the criminal believes he might
actually get caught.

We all have choices. We can be good citizens and leave others the hell alone,
or we can be predators. If you choose to be a predator, you deserve whatever
happens to you. I've managed to stay out of jail my whole life. How? I stay
out of other's property when I'm not invited; I don't drive drunk; I don't
assault my fellow citizens. Actually, it's been pretty easy.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Condoning lawlessness within the nation's prison systems is
reprehensible as it condones crime not the rule of law. Can't you see
that?

I firmly believe that the reason no one cares (much) about prison rape
is because our criminal justice system is seen by the majority as
hopelessly broken. Too many perps walk on a technicality, too many
sentences are reduced, too many prisons are seen as country clubs.
(You could book a prisoner in our "Red Baron Suite" for less than what
we pay per prisoner, nowadays...)

In short, "punishment" has become a joke, so by the time someone
finally DOES serve hard time, they are really, REALLY bad people that
garner little sympathy.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 06:05:07 -0700, Jay Honeck
wrote in . com:

I firmly believe that the reason no one cares (much) about prison rape
is because our criminal justice system is seen by the majority as
hopelessly broken.



"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be
ruled by evil men." -- Plato

(You could book a prisoner in our "Red Baron Suite" for less than what
we pay per prisoner, nowadays...)

How would you keep him there?

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote
(You could book a prisoner in our "Red Baron Suite" for less than what
we pay per prisoner, nowadays...)

How would you keep him there?

They would like it so much that they wouldn't want to leave. :)

BDS

On Jun 10, 1:50 am, Larry Dighera wrote:
On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 20:22:36 -0000, wrote in
.com:

Well, now these young men get to find out what its like in an ass-
pounding prison...

So, in your mind the just punishment for burglary is anal rape?

Larry,

So I take it you never saw the movie "Office Space"... you obviously
don't get the humor reference.

Dean