Impossible to ditch in a field (almost)

Welcome to the land of NASCAR. The fine condition of some of those
airports, if not their very existance is due in part to NASCAR and their
race teams. Concord Regional and Lexington being examples. Where are you
going?

I would submit that agriculture provides more landable areas in the east
than the open spaces of the west. A lot of that open space outside of the
dry lakes seems to be filled with cactus, creosote bushes and other hard
things.

Glider flying in the Minden NV area involves a lot of smooth looking terrain
(from 6 -10k up) that is completely unlandable. And the roads typically
wouldn't take 50ft glider wings (damn reflectors) though a Cessna might be
just fine.

In the east and midwest, agriculture makes most areas landable most of the
time. As long as they are growing pine trees.

Another difference may be in the typical altitudes flown, especially VFR.
The weather is closer to the ground in the East so altitudes may be lower
offering less glide distance.

Of course "survival landings" due to engine failure versus "landouts" in
gliders have different criteria for landability.

"mindenpilot" wrote in message
...
I live out West, where there are hundreds of miles of empty space in every
direction. When flight planning, I often say, "I can ditch in that dry
lake
bed, or that field, or if I have to, on that road."

In a couple of weeks, I'm travelling to North Carolina to visit my brother
for the holidays. I'm planning on renting a plane at his local airport
and
taking him for a flight. To prepare, I got the Charlotte sectional.

When I opened it up, I couldn't believe it! The thing is literally dotted
with airports. They're everywhere!

Seems to me, I'd much rather be on the east coast when I have an engine
failure, instead of out here where you're lucky to find that dry lake bed
(instead of a mountain).

Anyone ever notice this before?

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

"WRE" (remove nospam) wrote in message
...
Actually, the highest point in the east is Mount Mitchell in western
North
Carolina at an elevation of 6684 msl

"BTIZ" wrote in message
newsuOsd.176865$bk1.148755@fed1read05...
really... that's going to be news to everyone in New England.. LOL

It's true. In fact there's four other mountains in the same area (Black
Mountains) that are higher than Mt. Washington. I'm a native North
Carolinian, still reside here, and have been up on these mountains many
times. Like you said, they are still small compared to the Western
mountains, but they shouldn't be taken lightly. If you fly into them they
don't move any more than they do out west!

What makes Mt. Washington really unique is that it has the most extreme
weather conditions. I believe the highest recorded wind velocity was
experienced the 231 mph! Also, unlike the North Carolina mountains,
where trees exist at the peak, Mt. Washington rises above the treeline. This
makes the ascent the top very dramatic and it just feels higher than it
really is.

I just visited Mt. Washington for the first time last year. Anyone who is
interested in weather (most pilots I hope!) should make it a point to check
it out if you are ever in the area. There is a substantial charge to drive
up, but I found it well worth it. You can also take the cog railway straight
up the side too.

-Trent
PP-ASEL

On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 10:50:12 -0800, "BTIZ"
wrote:

everything is different on the right side.. (east), but I can show you
places where there is still a long way between landable airports... north
woods of Maine, NH and VT, but then in NH and VT the airports are closer
together.. and their idea of mountains is down around 4000-5000ft, the
highest point on the east is Mt Washington at 6288MSL. But you still don't
want to mess with it if you are not familiar with mountain effects winds and
weather.

Learned in NH, lived and have flown all over the country, central plains
mostly, and now Western mountains, Nevada/Arizona/Utah/California

BT

I did not realise that Vermont and NH had lots of airfields, doesn't
seem like it when I'm flying around up here. Plus, the area
contiguous to the Connecticut river valley is extremely inhospitable:
it's very rugged, hilly and has collected a number of airplanes over
the years. Remember the Learjet that went down around this time of
the year six or seven years ago? Wasn't found for 3 years even though
it was finally discovered right along the flight path of the approach
to Lebanon Airport. The guys just let down too early in the clag
after executing a missed approach. Let down into heavily wooded
rising terrain. Weather was nasty that day.

Corky Scott

"Trent Moorehead" wrote in message
...

"WRE" (remove nospam) wrote in message
...
Actually, the highest point in the east is Mount Mitchell in western
North
Carolina at an elevation of 6684 msl

"BTIZ" wrote in message
newsuOsd.176865$bk1.148755@fed1read05...
really... that's going to be news to everyone in New England.. LOL

What makes Mt. Washington really unique is that it has the most extreme
weather conditions. I believe the highest recorded wind velocity was
experienced the 231 mph! Also, unlike the North Carolina mountains,
where trees exist at the peak, Mt. Washington rises above the treeline.
This
makes the ascent the top very dramatic and it just feels higher than it
really is.

The most amazing mountains I've ever seen were on the Kenai peninsula in
Alaska. The peaks were only 6000-7000' but they were rising almost straight
up from sea level. The base of Mt. Washington is around 1500' so you have a
pretty impressive vertical rise, despite the relatively low peak. Around
here the treeline is also often pretty low. Mt. Monadnock is only 3200' but
it's pretty much just rock and moss by the time you reach the peak.

In terms of lethality, a hike to the peak in anything other than the middle
of the Summer has to be treated as a potential survival situation. Storms
can dump a foot or more of snow with little warning in early Fall, and by
Thanksgiving the temperatures at night can head into arctic territory, with
wind chills below -100F. If the mountain were less accessible I suspect it
would claim a lot more lives than it does. Every season at least a few
groups of hikers dial 911 on their cell phones.

-cwk.

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Trent Moorehead" wrote in message
...

"WRE" (remove nospam) wrote in message
...
Actually, the highest point in the east is Mount Mitchell in western
North
Carolina at an elevation of 6684 msl

"BTIZ" wrote in message
newsuOsd.176865$bk1.148755@fed1read05...
really... that's going to be news to everyone in New England.. LOL

What makes Mt. Washington really unique is that it has the most extreme
weather conditions. I believe the highest recorded wind velocity was
experienced the 231 mph! Also, unlike the North Carolina mountains,
where trees exist at the peak, Mt. Washington rises above the treeline.
This
makes the ascent the top very dramatic and it just feels higher than it
really is.

The most amazing mountains I've ever seen were on the Kenai peninsula in
Alaska. -cwk.


You should see Mt Fairweather. It comes straight out of the sea to 15,300
and probably has much worse weather than Mt Washington but there isn't a
weather station on the summit to prove it. Also the NWS started using a new
wind chill chart a few years ago which only gives about half as much drop
due to wind as the previous chart. There are no more sub -100F on the new
chart which goes to -45F and 60mph.
http://www.weatherimages.org/data/windchill.html

Mike
MU-2

Corky Scott wrote:
On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 10:50:12 -0800, "BTIZ"
wrote:


everything is different on the right side.. (east), but I can show you
places where there is still a long way between landable airports... north
woods of Maine, NH and VT, but then in NH and VT the airports are closer
together.. and their idea of mountains is down around 4000-5000ft, the
highest point on the east is Mt Washington at 6288MSL. But you still don't
want to mess with it if you are not familiar with mountain effects winds and
weather.

Learned in NH, lived and have flown all over the country, central plains
mostly, and now Western mountains, Nevada/Arizona/Utah/California

BT


I did not realise that Vermont and NH had lots of airfields, doesn't
seem like it when I'm flying around up here. Plus, the area
contiguous to the Connecticut river valley is extremely inhospitable:
it's very rugged, hilly and has collected a number of airplanes over
the years.

Ah.. But there is always Runway 91 in case you need it.

Remember the Learjet that went down around this time of
the year six or seven years ago? Wasn't found for 3 years even though
it was finally discovered right along the flight path of the approach
to Lebanon Airport. The guys just let down too early in the clag
after executing a missed approach. Let down into heavily wooded
rising terrain. Weather was nasty that day.

Corky Scott

IFR mistakes notwithstanding...

--
Remove "2PLANES" to reply.

"Brad Zeigler" wrote in message
...

Isn't ditching, by definition, in the water?


Yup.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Brad Zeigler" wrote in message
...

Isn't ditching, by definition, in the water?


Yup.

Unless... You put it into one of those trenches that are dug around the
outsides of fields in the flat, used to be, swampy areas, that are dry
except when it rains hard. What are those called? Oh yeah, ditches! g
--
Jim in NC

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...


You should see Mt Fairweather. It comes straight out of the sea to 15,300
and probably has much worse weather than Mt Washington but there isn't a
weather station on the summit to prove it. Also the NWS started using a
new
wind chill chart a few years ago which only gives about half as much drop
due to wind as the previous chart. There are no more sub -100F on the new
chart which goes to -45F and 60mph.
http://www.weatherimages.org/data/windchill.html


Headed back to Alaska next summer, might see if time allows for a visit.
Still, Mt. Washington's conditions are surprisingly brutal:

http://www.mountwashington.com/weather/index.html

In December and January there is a 1-in-3 chance of winds over 100MPH in any
24-hour period and the average high temperature in July is 53F. That's about
the same as the average *low* temperature in Fairbanks, AK at that time of
year. I'm sure if you went up into the Brooks Range or Siberia you could
find worse, though.

-cwk.

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...


You should see Mt Fairweather. It comes straight out of the sea to
15,300
and probably has much worse weather than Mt Washington but there isn't a
weather station on the summit to prove it. Also the NWS started using a
new
wind chill chart a few years ago which only gives about half as much drop
due to wind as the previous chart. There are no more sub -100F on the
new
chart which goes to -45F and 60mph.
http://www.weatherimages.org/data/windchill.html


Headed back to Alaska next summer, might see if time allows for a visit.
Still, Mt. Washington's conditions are surprisingly brutal:

http://www.mountwashington.com/weather/index.html

In December and January there is a 1-in-3 chance of winds over 100MPH in
any
24-hour period and the average high temperature in July is 53F. That's
about
the same as the average *low* temperature in Fairbanks, AK at that time of
year. I'm sure if you went up into the Brooks Range or Siberia you could
find worse, though.

-cwk.


Most of the big Alaskan moutains probably have worse weather than Mt
Washington but there is nobody there in the dark months to record
conditions. Same for the Himalaya. The wind usually isn't bad on Denali
until you reach 16,400' and doesn't get really bad until bove Denali pass at
18,200'. If you took all the people who have ever been at or above Denali
pass in Dec-Mar in the past 100yrs, the total time spent there is probably
less than two weeks and almost none of it in bad weather. The first winter
ascent got pinned down for one of those weeks at Denali pass in winds
estimated at over 150mph.with temps of -58F. They named the book -148F for
the chill factor. The weather on Fairweather and Logan is reportedly worse
than Denali but I have never been to either.

Similiarly many of the worst hurricane winds are also unrecorded because the
weather instrument were destroyed. In one hurricane (I forget the name) the
beach sand was making sparks when it impacted concrete! Think about that!

I have never heard of another small mountain that comes close to Mt.
Washington though.

Mike
MU-2