USAF considers new anti-ship weapon.

Arved Sandstrom wrote:

I think everyone can play. Why is it an automatic assumption that the USN
has exclusive rights to blow up ships, or even be in charge of every project
to blow up ships? For decades every branch of the US military has had so
much overlap with each other that one might as well not worry about these
issues. Everyone wants to have their own navy, air force, ground forces,
nuclear capability...if the USAF wants to start a project to sink aircraft
carriers, let 'em. Arguably they might be a bit more enthusiastic at it than
the Navy is.

AHS

IIRC the Navy still requires the Air Force to maintain some
anti-shipping capability. They particularly like our bomber's ability
to deliver a lot of mines quickly. FWIW I wrote some test cards for a
Mk65 mission a couple of months ago and will very likely plan a couple
more Mk65 missions next year. When I worked on the Bone, the weapons
loaders showed me the Mk62 and Mk65 load trainers all the time.

As for Harpoon, a small number of B-52H's were modified, the whole BUFF
fleet is now getting updated with AMI and the AF's Harpoons are old. It
makes good sense to replace Harpoon with a modification of JASSM. It
would cost a whole lot less to integrate and test and brings a longer
range, LO missile with a larger warhead to the table. Plus making JASSM
our (I am a blue suiter) primary anti-ship weapon allows us to use a lot
more platforms to support the Navy's requirement for us to go after ships.

Michael Kelly
BUFF Flight Tester

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 06:38:12 GMT, Michael Kelly
wrote:

Peter Skelton wrote:

Surface to air technology has improved to the point where a
Harpoon launcher can be at excessive risk. ISTM that the USAF
wants to stand back a bit farther.

Peter Skelton

Not many BUFF's around and even fewer of them with the ability to launch
Harpoon. With AMI all BUFF's can launch JASSM and it has a longer range
with a much larger warhead and some LO. Solve the moving target update
part and you have a pretty effective anti-ship weapon.

Wasn't I answering something related to Harpoon, lo those many
moons ago when I wrote that?

Peter Skelton

In article , Michael
Kelly wrote:

Mark Test wrote:

We're all one big "joint" family now. The AF finally has to learn how to
attack
ships. :-) Wonder if they'll have to learn to land on a carrier too?

Careful there, the BUFF pilot I sit next to at work is an USNTPS grad
with numerous traps in Tomcats and Hornets. He didn't think they were
all that hard, but that could have just been bravado...

But any BUFF traps? :-)

Howard C. Berkowitz wrote:
Careful there, the BUFF pilot I sit next to at work is an USNTPS grad
with numerous traps in Tomcats and Hornets. He didn't think they were
all that hard, but that could have just been bravado...


But any BUFF traps? :-)

Couple of his landings felt like traps last week , but he was
practicing EP's in variable winds.

Michael Kelly
BUFF Flight Tester

Michael Kelly wrote:

:Mark Test wrote:
:
: We're all one big "joint" family now. The AF finally has to learn how to
: attack
: ships. :-) Wonder if they'll have to learn to land on a carrier too?
:
:Careful there, the BUFF pilot I sit next to at work is an USNTPS grad
:with numerous traps in Tomcats and Hornets. He didn't think they were
:all that hard, but that could have just been bravado...

What the hell was a Big Wing guy doing getting his TP training at Pax?

--
"This is a war of the unknown warriors; but let all strive
without failing in faith or in duty...."

-- Winston Churchill

Michael Kelly wrote:

:Thomas Schoene wrote:
:
: Yes. JASSM was zero-funded in the Navy's FY 06 budget request, and I don't
: think anyone put it back in the markup.
:
:Could be pay back for JSOW...

Or could be they just don't need it. Already have SLAM-ER in
inventory for the JASSM mission and it's known to work.

Why commit the money for a paper weapon that the Navy doesn't need?

Hint: USN tried to withdraw from JASSM long before USAF zeroed JSOW
and were told they couldn't, so throw more money in the pot. After
USAF and JSOW and the continually rising cost for JASSM, it was harder
for Congress to tell the Navy 'No' the second time around.

--
"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."
-- Charles Pinckney

Michael Kelly wrote:

:Harry Andreas wrote:
:
: I detect the distinctive smell of marketing-types ghost writing that article.
: While JASSM is a joint AF-Navy project, I was under the impression that
: the Navy was considering pulling out of JASSM in favor of SLAM-ER, which
: itself is a derivative of Harpoon.
:
:Just as likely that there's a little bad blood after the Air Force
:changed its preference to WCMD-ER over JSOW, same range,

Wrong. Shorter range.

:lower cost and

Paper weapons are always cheap.

:much more bang for the buck.

Especially when it's cut back to zero bucks.

id I mention it just straps onto a dumb
:cluster bomb shape. Of course JASSM lately has had a few QC problems
:and that could explain the Navy's preference for SLAM-ER.

Yep. Remember, the Navy wanted out of JASSM due to escalating costs
long before the Air Force got out of JSOW.

--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw

Fred J. McCall wrote:

What the hell was a Big Wing guy doing getting his TP training at Pax?

USAF routinely sends folks to USNTPS and even foreign TPS's to ensure we
don't become to narrow minding in our thinking. My cube mate was one
such person. I also used to work with a former commandant of USAF TPS
who was a graduate of the Royal TPS in England. In both cases they were
brought back as instructors after completing their respective TPS's.

As to a "big wing guy" going to USNTPS, he was an ENJJPT grad and had
almost 1000 hrs in T-38's instructing at Randolph (instructing
instructors).

Michael Kelly
BUFF Flight Tester

Fred J. McCall wrote:

:Just as likely that there's a little bad blood after the Air Force
:changed its preference to WCMD-ER over JSOW, same range,

Wrong. Shorter range.

Just going off of what I've seen in the office.

:lower cost and

Paper weapons are always cheap.

Except WCMD-ER's are being dropped and integrated at Eglin right now.
Probably only on paper though. It did get zeroed on my platform to pay
for other upgrades.


:much more bang for the buck.

Especially when it's cut back to zero bucks.

A strap on kit is more cost effective than a brand new weapon,
especially when its a modification of a currently low cost guidance that
straps on to the back end of a dumb bomb.


Michael Kelly
BUFF Flight Tester

Michael Kelly wrote:

:Fred J. McCall wrote:
:
: What the hell was a Big Wing guy doing getting his TP training at Pax?
:
:USAF routinely sends folks to USNTPS

Well, I can sure understand why USAF might want to send folks to
USNTPS to learn how to do it right. :-)

I'm just surprised that there was room in a class.

--
"The only real kill is a gun kill."
-- Unidentified Top Gun instructor