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What magic do the JS3 and Ventus 3 have that the ASG-29 Does not?



 
 
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  #31  
Old August 15th 18, 05:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie Quebec
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Default What magic do the JS3 and Ventus 3 have that the ASG-29 Does not?

Unless you want to fly on the money bleeding edge in comps, last generation gliders become bargains, with 99% of the performance.
As an example, when I last visited my glider repairer, he had a JS1 he was fitting new winglets to.
The performance gain was .25 of an L/D point at 100kt, at a cost of $7000 aust. Must be the most expensive LD per dollar ever.
Given that manufacturers give gliders to comp pilots for WC as a marketing tool, as shown by Schemp lending Adam Woolley a V3 for the recent Hosin comp.
29s and 27s V2s will be good value buying the near future.
Or you could give up gliding, buy a Stemme and fly a light plane. (:

  #32  
Old August 15th 18, 06:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
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Default What magic do the JS3 and Ventus 3 have that the ASG-29 Does not?

On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 9:07:58 PM UTC-7, Charlie Quebec wrote:
Unless you want to fly on the money bleeding edge in comps, last generation gliders become bargains, with 99% of the performance.
As an example, when I last visited my glider repairer, he had a JS1 he was fitting new winglets to.
The performance gain was .25 of an L/D point at 100kt, at a cost of $7000 aust. Must be the most expensive LD per dollar ever.
Given that manufacturers give gliders to comp pilots for WC as a marketing tool, as shown by Schemp lending Adam Woolley a V3 for the recent Hosin comp.
29s and 27s V2s will be good value buying the near future.
Or you could give up gliding, buy a Stemme and fly a light plane. (:


As usual, you're just blowing smoke, dreaming up numbers off the top of what is left of your head.

Tom
  #33  
Old August 15th 18, 07:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
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Default What magic do the JS3 and Ventus 3 have that the ASG-29 Does not?

On Wednesday, 15 August 2018 07:07:58 UTC+3, Charlie Quebec wrote:
Given that manufacturers give gliders to comp pilots for WC as a marketing tool, as shown by Schemp lending Adam Woolley a V3 for the recent Hosin comp.


Not true.
  #34  
Old August 15th 18, 05:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Default What magic do the JS3 and Ventus 3 have that the ASG-29 Does not?

Charlie Quebec wrote on 8/14/2018 9:07 PM:
The performance gain was .25 of an L/D point at 100kt, at a cost of $7000 aust. Must be the most expensive LD per dollar ever.


Irrelevant - no one adds winglets to gain L/D at 100 knots; generally, it's to
improve the low speed handling, thermalling, and low speed L/D.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf
  #35  
Old August 15th 18, 07:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Emir Sherbi
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Default What magic do the JS3 and Ventus 3 have that the ASG-29 Does not?

El martes, 14 de agosto de 2018, 14:47:28 (UTC-3), escribió:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 6:06:07 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 12:45:19 PM UTC-4, Paul T wrote:
Of course the AS33 will have even more magic.... and would the V3 be as
magical if it could fit as larger a pilot as the JS3? Wonder how much
difference that tincy fuselage makes?


Things that have no size have no drag. Every little bit helps, if you can fit in.
UH


Damian Goldenzweig from Argentina world ranked 2277 did very well to finish 28th in the larger fuselage prototype self-launching Ventus-3M. Analysing his flights on See You compared to little fuselage V3s he flew with doesn't show any significant performance difference. On Task 11, for example, he started with and mostly flew with highly ranked Mario Kiessling and/or Peter Millenaar and beat them both. The final glide performances at around 105 knots look identical - even allowing for me looking through a wishful thinking filter.



I was his crew on the WGC. There was difference in performance on most of the task, but that is because the championship had incredible flight conditions. The cruise speed on most of the time where around 220 km/h, of course that at that speed a more wide fuselage (and in consequence 6-8cm less wing) will have significant drag and loose more altitude than a V3T. On the days that where more normal (or poor) conditions, there was less difference. The 3M climbs as good as the others at the same wing loading.




  #36  
Old August 16th 18, 12:06 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie Quebec
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Default What magic do the JS3 and Ventus 3 have that the ASG-29 Does not?

Did it ever occur to you that different winglets might have less drag at 100kt?
Perhaps try thinking before stating the bleeding obvious.
Let’s make it simple for you, old winglets work equally well at low speed, more drag at high speed.
  #37  
Old August 16th 18, 12:20 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Duster[_2_]
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Posts: 198
Default What magic do the JS3 and Ventus 3 have that the ASG-29 Does not?

Anyone try using this tool? Dataset from the 2018 WGC might assist in comparing performance of pilot, glider model, etc. info on V3 v JS1 v JS3 v ASG29


http://www.igcspy.com/compday.php?EventID=32&DayID=167

  #38  
Old August 16th 18, 12:59 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Duster[_2_]
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Default What magic do the JS3 and Ventus 3 have that the ASG-29 Does not?


Perhaps try thinking before stating the bleeding obvious.
Let’s make it simple for you, old winglets work equally well at low speed, more drag at high speed.


I'm no expert on winglets, but it's my understanding that not all old winglets work equally well at low reynolds numbers. I've heard some factory winglets were quite ineffective so the owners went to 3rd parties. Someone help me out here; I believe I read that some winglets significantly improved the safety of certain models (Ventus? ASW20?) from low speed wing drops. Not a physicist, yet I highly doubt you can accurately measure a 0.25 L/D improvement at high speeds. What method did he use to test? That seems to be well within the noise. (BTW you got docked points for rudeness. It doesn't encourage free exchange of ideas. I'm sure you meant well.)

  #39  
Old August 17th 18, 03:48 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bojack J4
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Default What magic do the JS3 and Ventus 3 have that the ASG-29 Does not?

Quarter million dollars.....yikes!!!
  #40  
Old August 17th 18, 05:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JS[_5_]
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Default What magic do the JS3 and Ventus 3 have that the ASG-29 Does not?

On Thursday, August 16, 2018 at 7:48:30 PM UTC-7, Bojack J4 wrote:
Quarter million dollars.....yikes!!!


After posting in the GLIDING INTERNATIONAL thread, I realised that there is a great way to get a fire sale ASG29:
Like Rick Indrebo, buy a wreck and spend a few years working on it.
Jim
 




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