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The club, 'DJK' in Landau in der Pfalz, Germany, had
many GREAT winch operators! The only instrument, I think (hey, this was from 1983 till 1986), was a tach and maybe a engine coolant temperature gauge. I think they operated mainly by sight and sound. Yep, they were great operators! I think their rules stipulated at least 100 operations with an instructor before they could operate solo. Ray Lovinggood Carrboro, North Carolina, USA (who misses winch launching in the Land of Aero Tows) At 13:48 12 August 2003, Bill Daniels wrote: Let me add that if the winch driver provides the right acceleration, the pilot of a K-8, or any similar glider, will be unaware of the pitch-up tendency. Ray, you were blessed with the services of a good winch driver. Bill Daniels 'Jonathan Gogan' wrote in message ... Ray; Ka8 well known for pitch-up on winch-launch with lighter (ladies or small/medim men) pilots but still well within W&B limits. I have no such problem being f*t g*t but that is not altogether a good thing ;-) J. 'Ray Lovinggood' wrote in message ... I have flown a K8 from a winch launch several dozen times and never experienced a 'pitch up' as you describe. I was trained for winch launching on a Ka-7 and then was moved into the K8. I loved it! The winch, a Tost unit, I think, was powered by a General Motors V-8 gasoline engine which was mounted on an ancient Mercedes truck of maybe 5 ton capacity. The winch was great for launching the single-seaters. My best altitude at release height was 700 meters in the K8. The winch could have used a bit more grunt for launching the Grob 103, but it still managed to get to 400 meters or so. Could the weight and balance been out of limits on the K8 you were launching? I wish our club had a winch! Then, I would get to drive the 'Lepo' again! Ray Lovinggood Carrboro, North Carolina, USA LS-1d, 'W8' At 12:06 11 August 2003, Chris Reed wrote: 'Andreas Maurer' wrote in message .. . On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 07:52:53 -0600, 'Bill Daniels' wrote: The boundary on the high side of acceleration is the tendency of some gliders with high CG's, low hooks and limited down elevator authority to pitch-up uncontrollably when a threshold acceleration is exceeded. Please tell me the names of these gliders. I have NOT heard of a single one yet that showed this behaviour. Not one. In my experience the K8 pitch-up was near uncontrollable when winching. If you had winched it previously you learnt the theoretically correct procedure, which was: a. Stick back to get the nose skid up. b. Stick central to run on the main wheel; and then c. (*Immediately the main wheel left the ground) Knuckles hard into the instrument panel and wait for the pitch to become controllable. On anything but the softest of take-ups (a) and (b) disappeared, as the glider was flying before you could react, so the *real* procedure was stick full forwards as soon as the glider moved. Once full pitch control was re-established the rest of the launch was fine, but the first two seconds were only semi-controlled, and that only if you knew what to expect. I never saw a first flight in the K8 where the pilot reacted in time to prevent an uncontrolled pitch-up as soon as the main wheel left the ground. And our winch was not any kind of high-powered monster. All the glass gliders I've seen winching behaved well, but the K8 was ... interesting. |
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On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:46:22 UTC, Ray Lovinggood
wrote: : The only instrument, I : think (hey, this was from 1983 till 1986), was a tach : and maybe a engine coolant temperature gauge. I think : they operated mainly by sight and sound. When I was a winch instructor at a club in the southwest of England I always taught new drivers to do it by the appearance of the glider and the bow in the cable alone. Of necessity, because there were no engine gauges at all, but I firmly believe it's the only way to do it well. It's also very helpful, I think, if winch drivers are also current glider pilots. Ian -- |
#3
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On 12 Aug 2003 14:46:22 GMT, Ray Lovinggood
wrote: The club, 'DJK' in Landau in der Pfalz, Germany, had many GREAT winch operators! Although I know you are biased, thx a lot for the compliment, Ray! The only instrument, I think (hey, this was from 1983 till 1986), was a tach and maybe a engine coolant temperature gauge. I think they operated mainly by sight and sound. Yep, they were great operators! I think their rules stipulated at least 100 operations with an instructor before they could operate solo. The 100 launches (on at least 10 deifferent days) are standard requirements in Germany before you are able to work as a winch driver. And in 2003 we have a 280 hp turbo Diesel winch that is easily able to catapult any glider into the air - and we still use the same hightech gauges you mentioned - the winch is basically driven with the RPM meter and visally (rope slack). Ray Lovinggood Carrboro, North Carolina, USA (who misses winch launching in the Land of Aero Tows) .... simply go back to the club of your youth... Bye Andreas |
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