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#1
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Picking up a Clearance Airborne
I was departing Harford Co MD airport yesterday (0W3) enroute to
Chesterfield MD (FCI). 0W3 is a small non-towered field with no ground communications to ATC or FSS. In trying to pick up my clearance on the ground, I attempted to contact Leesburg FSS on the 1-800-WX-BRIEF. Due to call volume, I was routed to Altoona FSS, which did not have access to my flight plan and said that I needed to call Leesburg directly. So I called the direct Leesburg number, and after staying on hold for 15 minutes (meanwhile my cellphone battery charge is ticking away) I decided to hang up, and get my clearance airborne. The weather was VFR, albeit a bit hazy. Even though 0W3 is just north of the ADIZ, I really wanted to get my clearance prior to departure just because my route would eventually take me into the ADIZ. I ultimately decided that I would depart VFR to the north, and circle if necessary, until I was cleared enroute. After taking off, I contacted the departure freq on the approach chart for 0W3. The controller chewed me out for departing VFR, made a comment that it was unsafe, and sent me to another frequency. I tried the new freq, and this controller chewed me out even further, refused to get my clearance, and told me I should have gotten it on the ground. Explaining to my passenger (1st time flying with me) that the ground was a better place to deal with this than the air, I returned to the field to start making phone calls. I finally got the number for Potomac approach, got my clearance. I was told to call back right before I was airborne. (Is a cell phone now a require piece of comm equipment in an IFR aircraft?) I know the controllers were busy at that moment and that's why refused my clearance. Why didn't they just issue a sqawk code with the instructions "remain vfr"? Does it have to do with the nearby ADIZ? I guess my confusion is this: I've picked up clearances in the air on numerous occasions. I thought it made it easier for them because they did not have to block out airspace for my departure. I've even been denied a clearance through an RCO on the ground at a Charlotte area airport and asked to pick it up airborne. While I didn't appreciate the on-air chew out from the controller, I am not really upset, I just want to know how I should know these things ahead of time. I haven't been able to find guidance from the AIM or 7110.65, NOTAMS or otherwise. Brad |
#2
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Maybe this is a Potomac area thing. In Colorado I have never been refused a
clearance by Denver Approach. The worst that ever happened was about 5 minutes of circling while I waited for the controller to have enough time to take care of me. The only time I ever get a clearance on the ground is if it is IFR weather for the departure, and that is rare in Colorado. |
#3
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I usually depart VFR and pick up my clearance after takeoff with departure
at the nearby Class C. Often I won't even have to ask for it .. when I report airborne they'll say .. "I'll bet you're looking for your clearance .. " and give it to me. I'm in Nebraska. Unless they've got a notice out about not picking up clearances airborne .. what grounds would they have to chew you out? Sounds to me like you've just got a bunch of overworked, crabby controllers out there. "Michael 182" wrote in message news:Gls1b.173511$Oz4.45613@rwcrnsc54... Maybe this is a Potomac area thing. In Colorado I have never been refused a clearance by Denver Approach. The worst that ever happened was about 5 minutes of circling while I waited for the controller to have enough time to take care of me. The only time I ever get a clearance on the ground is if it is IFR weather for the departure, and that is rare in Colorado. |
#4
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I'm surprised you didn't just fly around the ADIZ. My flight planning software says it would have only taken 5 minutes more. Sandy Mustard Brad Z wrote: I was departing Harford Co MD airport yesterday (0W3) enroute to Chesterfield MD (FCI). The weather was VFR, albeit a bit hazy. Even though 0W3 is just north of the ADIZ, I really wanted to get my clearance prior to departure just because my route would eventually take me into the ADIZ. Brad |
#5
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"Sandy Mustard" wrote in message ... I'm surprised you didn't just fly around the ADIZ. My flight planning software says it would have only taken 5 minutes more. The most direct route not within the ADIZ puts you through several frequently hot on weekends restricted areas and over the top of a nuke plant (Calvert Cliffs). Frankly, I'm not one to shy away from airspace on the direct path unless someone can convince me some damn good reason why I should. Back before all this paranoid horse****, I could go direct VKX to the Tappan Z bridge almost directly over ADW, BWI, PHL and just west of EWR without hardly a few degrees of heading change from the various approach controls. |
#6
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Brad Z wrote:
: I was departing Harford Co MD airport yesterday (0W3) enroute to : Chesterfield MD (FCI). 0W3 is a small non-towered field with no ground : communications to ATC or FSS. In trying to pick up my clearance on the : ground, I attempted to contact Leesburg FSS on the 1-800-WX-BRIEF. Due to : call volume, I was routed to Altoona FSS, which did not have access to my : flight plan and said that I needed to call Leesburg directly. So I called : the direct Leesburg number, and after staying on hold for 15 minutes : (meanwhile my cellphone battery charge is ticking away) I decided to hang : up, and get my clearance airborne. I flew a friend up to Ft. Meade, MD about a month ago, and had similar problems getting through to FSS. Since the airport was in the ADIZ and I had been warned not to even do a lap in the pattern without getting a squawk, I didn't depart. I had to wait on hold for 20 minutes to get to talk to someone and open an ADIZ VFR flight plan and get a code... the whole time watching a dark rain cell come closer and closer. Ended up getting clearance in time, and hauling-ass away from the rain. That whole mess up there is completely unnecessary and pretty much just a pain for everyone. -Cory -- ************************************************** *********************** * The prime directive of Linux: * * - learn what you don't know, * * - teach what you do. * * (Just my 20 USm$) * ************************************************** *********************** |
#7
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"Brad Z" wrote:
After taking off, I contacted the departure freq on the approach chart for 0W3. The controller chewed me out for departing VFR, made a comment that it was unsafe, and sent me to another frequency. I tried the new freq, and this controller chewed me out even further, refused to get my clearance, and told me I should have gotten it on the ground. I've had similar problems with the Houston TRACON, and they don't have the excuse of a bunch of red hot TFR's, ADIZ's, etc. to deal with. They do NOT like pilots picking up their clearances airborne off satellite airports. -- Dan C172RG at BFM |
#8
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I know the controllers were busy at that moment and that's why refused my clearance. Why didn't they just issue a sqawk code with the instructions "remain vfr"? Does it have to do with the nearby ADIZ? My guess is yes. They also could tell you to stand by while looking for it. During a time between 9/11 and the introduction of the ADIZ, I was able to pick up my clearance while airborne from BayBridge (W29) to Frederick (FDK) while circling over the bay. It took the controller a couple of minutes, but once she found it, everyting went fine. That was a big hassle you went through, call FSS, call another FSS, take off, get chewed-out twice, land, call Potomac, take off again, .... |
#9
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At my home airport, I always pick up my clearance from FSS via GCO. If
there is any reluctance or problem on the part of FSS with coordinating/issuing a clearance from Center, I get very nervous. Recently I asked for clearance and after few minutes, FSS guy came back on the line and told me that he could not make contact with Center and recommended that I depart VFR and pick up clearance once airborne. Very unusual. Weather was VFR but lots of convective activity, sky broken. I departed and once airborne, discovered Center was very very busy. I didn't know why. After many radio calls and leveling off at appropriate VFR altitude, Center responded to my calls. I picked up my clearance but not "as filed". Turns out that Center radar was out of service (was not mentioned in FSS briefing of notams) and thus pilots having to fly airways only and provide numerous position/altitude reports to Center. So, after Center gave me my clearance, I had to scramble to check charts to make sure I could comply before accepting. Everything worked out fine but this falls into the "never again" category for me. If I have trouble getting clearance on ground I will make sure I understand why before making decision to pick up clearance in air. It's amazing that I have become, over time, uncomfortable going VFR cross country. bty, I enjoy lurking in this group and learning from you all. "Roger Tracy" wrote in message ... I usually depart VFR and pick up my clearance after takeoff with departure at the nearby Class C. Often I won't even have to ask for it .. when I report airborne they'll say .. "I'll bet you're looking for your clearance .. " and give it to me. I'm in Nebraska. Unless they've got a notice out about not picking up clearances airborne .. what grounds would they have to chew you out? Sounds to me like you've just got a bunch of overworked, crabby controllers out there. "Michael 182" wrote in message news:Gls1b.173511$Oz4.45613@rwcrnsc54... Maybe this is a Potomac area thing. In Colorado I have never been refused a clearance by Denver Approach. The worst that ever happened was about 5 minutes of circling while I waited for the controller to have enough time to take care of me. The only time I ever get a clearance on the ground is if it is IFR weather for the departure, and that is rare in Colorado. |
#10
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"PA28Rdrvr" wrote:
Weather was VFR but lots of convective activity, sky broken. [...] It's amazing that I have become, over time, uncomfortable going VFR cross country. With lots of convective activity, I'd rather be VFR. I don't want to fly into a CB, so VFR will allow me to visually navigate around the buildups. IFR, I'm at the mercy of the controller as to where I go. Once he puts me into a cloud, I can no longer see what's ahead. My first hint that the benign-looking CU I flew into has turned into something nastier may be my head bouncing off the cabin top. |
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