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#11
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Cell phones on GA aircraft
Christopher Brian Colohan writes:
I'm confused -- I thought in a previous thread you said you lived in Paris? If so, why does the FCC matter? (Or am I wrong about where you live...?) With respect to aviation, I ignore the place where I live, and I think only about the USA. Everyone else is too far behind. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#12
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Cell phones on GA aircraft
RK Henry wrote:
snip I once called my favorite CFII to make an appointment. When she answered the phone, there was a lot of background noise but we could still converse. She was talking to me on her cell phone while she was instructing. Obviously, it can work. I used to work with an instructor who would routinely conduct business on his cell while instructing (yes, he had other issues). But like you said, this was at low altitude in the practice area, very near multiple towers. Reception was not a problem. |
#13
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Cell phones on GA aircraft
I suppose it doesn't count in this discussion, but balloons are
aircraft. Cell phones work fine and are more reliable than either ordinary VHF radios or CB radios. Typically we are at tree tops, 100 to say, 500 feet. I figure people are allowed to use cell phones in tall buildings and easily hit these altitudes. Ron Natalie wrote: Mxsmanic wrote: I know the FCC says you're not supposed to use cell phones on an aircraft Actually, the FCC only says that for certain wireless phone services. Not all of them have that prohibition written in the regs. (even though recent studies show that such use does not overload multiple base stations, as the FCC originally feared). It's less of a problem now that we've moved away from the original AMPS (analog) cellular phone. However, the study you are probably thinking about doesn't say what you are proposing. It is talking about the Aircell guys identifying that THEIR airborne use (which is not standard cellular) doesn't cause any untoward interference to the ground based systems on the same frequency. However, has anyone tried it on small aircraft? The problem is that it doesn't work. Once we went to much fancier digital systems and antenna systems designed to really pack in the density, trying to hit them from over 1000 feet just doesn't work. Handheld cell phones have never put out more than 850mw when operating at high power (and they would use much less in a plane) and the modern digital ones put out even a fraction of that. It's unlikely that avionics would suffer much. |
#14
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Cell phones on GA aircraft
The FCC and the FAA have rules. The FAA is concerned with
any electronic device interfering with the aircraft nav or comm systems,. The FCC is concerned about a cellphone blocking hundreds of cell towers on the ground. Using Your Wireless Phone on Airplanes FCC rules currently ban cell phone use after a plane has taken off because of .... and other wireless devices aboard aircraft remain subject to the rules and ... www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/cellonplanes.html - 17k - Cached - Similar pages [PDF] The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is considering ... File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML FCC rules currently ban cell phone use after a plane .... phone use because of potential interference to navigation and aircraft systems. The FCC has ... www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/cellonplanes.pdf - Similar pages Cell Phones On Aircraft: Nuisance Or Necessity? Even if the FCC finalizes its proposed rule lifting its ban on aircraft cell phone use, the FAA has no intention to lift its long-standing ban on the use of ... http://www.house.gov/transportation/...15-05memo.html - 24k - Cached - Similar pages Opposition To Cell Phones On Aircraft Washington, DC - A proposed Federal Communications Commission (FCC) rule to ... any change to the existing ban on aircraft cell phone use would require the ... http://www.house.gov/transportation/...release90.html - 11k - Cached - Similar pages [ More results from www.house.gov ] Mobile phones on aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The cellphone calls are routed via the on-board SATCOM to the ground network and ... telephones while this aircraft is airborne is prohibited by FCC rules. ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_on_aircraft - 24k - Cached - Similar pages Aviation International News | Cellphones a real threat to an .... "Stubby" wrote in message . .. |I suppose it doesn't count in this discussion, but balloons are | aircraft. Cell phones work fine and are more reliable than either | ordinary VHF radios or CB radios. Typically we are at tree tops, 100 to | say, 500 feet. I figure people are allowed to use cell phones in tall | buildings and easily hit these altitudes. | | | Ron Natalie wrote: | Mxsmanic wrote: | I know the FCC says you're not supposed to use cell phones on an | aircraft | | Actually, the FCC only says that for certain wireless phone | services. Not all of them have that prohibition written in | the regs. | | (even though recent studies show that such use does not | overload multiple base stations, as the FCC originally feared). | | It's less of a problem now that we've moved away from the original | AMPS (analog) cellular phone. However, the study you are probably | thinking about doesn't say what you are proposing. It is talking | about the Aircell guys identifying that THEIR airborne use (which | is not standard cellular) doesn't cause any untoward interference | to the ground based systems on the same frequency. | | However, has anyone tried it on small aircraft? | | The problem is that it doesn't work. Once we went to much fancier | digital systems and antenna systems designed to really pack in the | density, trying to hit them from over 1000 feet just doesn't work. | | Handheld cell phones have never put out more than 850mw when | operating at high power (and they would use much less in | a plane) and the modern digital ones put out even a fraction of that. | It's unlikely that avionics would suffer much. |
#15
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Cell phones on GA aircraft
Note the confusion between "airplanes" and "aircraft". The former
excludes helos, balloons and gliders. The latter includes them. I'm uncertain where people in tall buildings appear. Jim Macklin wrote: The FCC and the FAA have rules. The FAA is concerned with any electronic device interfering with the aircraft nav or comm systems,. The FCC is concerned about a cellphone blocking hundreds of cell towers on the ground. Using Your Wireless Phone on Airplanes FCC rules currently ban cell phone use after a plane has taken off because of ... and other wireless devices aboard aircraft remain subject to the rules and ... www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/cellonplanes.html - 17k - Cached - Similar pages [PDF] The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is considering ... File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML FCC rules currently ban cell phone use after a plane ... phone use because of potential interference to navigation and aircraft systems. The FCC has ... www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/cellonplanes.pdf - Similar pages Cell Phones On Aircraft: Nuisance Or Necessity? Even if the FCC finalizes its proposed rule lifting its ban on aircraft cell phone use, the FAA has no intention to lift its long-standing ban on the use of ... http://www.house.gov/transportation/...15-05memo.html - 24k - Cached - Similar pages Opposition To Cell Phones On Aircraft Washington, DC - A proposed Federal Communications Commission (FCC) rule to ... any change to the existing ban on aircraft cell phone use would require the ... http://www.house.gov/transportation/...release90.html - 11k - Cached - Similar pages [ More results from www.house.gov ] Mobile phones on aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The cellphone calls are routed via the on-board SATCOM to the ground network and ... telephones while this aircraft is airborne is prohibited by FCC rules. ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_on_aircraft - 24k - Cached - Similar pages Aviation International News | Cellphones a real threat to an ... "Stubby" wrote in message . .. |I suppose it doesn't count in this discussion, but balloons are | aircraft. Cell phones work fine and are more reliable than either | ordinary VHF radios or CB radios. Typically we are at tree tops, 100 to | say, 500 feet. I figure people are allowed to use cell phones in tall | buildings and easily hit these altitudes. | | | Ron Natalie wrote: | Mxsmanic wrote: | I know the FCC says you're not supposed to use cell phones on an | aircraft | | Actually, the FCC only says that for certain wireless phone | services. Not all of them have that prohibition written in | the regs. | | (even though recent studies show that such use does not | overload multiple base stations, as the FCC originally feared). | | It's less of a problem now that we've moved away from the original | AMPS (analog) cellular phone. However, the study you are probably | thinking about doesn't say what you are proposing. It is talking | about the Aircell guys identifying that THEIR airborne use (which | is not standard cellular) doesn't cause any untoward interference | to the ground based systems on the same frequency. | | However, has anyone tried it on small aircraft? | | The problem is that it doesn't work. Once we went to much fancier | digital systems and antenna systems designed to really pack in the | density, trying to hit them from over 1000 feet just doesn't work. | | Handheld cell phones have never put out more than 850mw when | operating at high power (and they would use much less in | a plane) and the modern digital ones put out even a fraction of that. | It's unlikely that avionics would suffer much. |
#16
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Cell phones on GA aircraft
Paul Tomblin wrote: In a previous article, Mxsmanic said: how much of a glass cockpit you have. Will anyone admit to using phones on a GA aircraft? I can't get a signal at cruise altitude in the US. I can in Canada, but I've never tried to make a call or even send an SMS. -- I can't remember where I read this, but I recall that Canadian pilots were encouraged to use cell phones in case of lost-comm to contact ATC. |
#17
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Cell phones on GA aircraft
Mxsmanic wrote: I know the FCC says you're not supposed to use cell phones on an aircraft (even though recent studies show that such use does not overload multiple base stations, as the FCC originally feared). However, has anyone tried it on small aircraft? There is some concern about cell phones interfering with avionics on commercial airliners (the jury is still out for most scenarios), but I don't know if the phones make any difference on a small plane. I suppose it depends on how much of a glass cockpit you have. Will anyone admit to using phones on a GA aircraft? Yes, I will admit to it, having used cell phones on GA aircraft equipped with both glass cockpits and steam gauges. For some time, there was a big loophole in the FCC regulations. You could not use a cell phone, but almost nobody owned a cell phone as defined by the regulations. What people really had was PCS phones, and there was no FCC ban on using these in airplanes for a long time. That changed last year and the FCC now uses the same language for PCS phones as for cell phones (no doubt because some of us were a little too noisy about this loophole). Coverage with a PCS phone is spotty in a GA plane and you are likely to lose contact every couple minutes. They are best used in emergencies (when nobody cares about the regulations anyway -- you do what you have to do) or for short messages or texts to revise flight plans and tell the FBO that you are going to be late. I think the FCC would rather you use the phone for this rather than have somebody call out search and rescue because you did not return on time. One thing I find incredibly entertaining: after decades of scaring the daylights out of passengers about 'dangerous' cell phones the airlines are discovering that allowing passengers to use cell phones could be a profit center. So the ban has been lifted in some countries, but the passengers won't use the service because they are terrified of making the airplane fall out of the sky. Plus, there is the usual backlash from the anti-cell phone crowd who insist that use of a cell phone on an airplane is at least rude and at worst likely to kill everyone on board. Here in the Philippines the ATA prohibits the operation of cell phones in aircraft and you are still briefed by flight attendants that the use of cell phones interferes with avionics. Cell phones are also prohibited by law in banks. You could be imprisoned for six months for turning a cell phone on in a bank in the Philippines. Apparently there is a concern that criminal gangs could watch for large withdrawals of cash and then telephone confederates outside the bank. Of course, the law does not prevent anyone from simply stepping outside the bank to use his phone. I am surprised that there have not been more restrictions on cell phones. They are the tool of choice for terrorists to detonate their bombs by remote control (we just had a bunch of them in the Philippines a week or two ago). Plus, many of them have small cameras that could be used for surveillance and gathering intelligence. They are almost untraceable; you can use one once and throw it away. Really, perhaps Homeland Security needs to ban the cell phone nationwide. That ought to protect us. |
#18
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Cell phones on GA aircraft
Andrew Sarangan wrote:
I can't remember where I read this, but I recall that Canadian pilots were encouraged to use cell phones in case of lost-comm to contact ATC. Like I said, with the analog cell phones (or at least ones with an AMPS fallback) it worked fine but annoyed the system capacity. This is how the guys on Flight 93 were able to reach the ground. Unfortunately, my last two cell phones don't have that feature and the analog ground stations are pretty much disappearing. The FCC no longer requires the licensees to maintain analog cellular. |
#19
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Cell phones on GA aircraft
cjcampbell writes:
One thing I find incredibly entertaining: after decades of scaring the daylights out of passengers about 'dangerous' cell phones the airlines are discovering that allowing passengers to use cell phones could be a profit center. So the ban has been lifted in some countries, but the passengers won't use the service because they are terrified of making the airplane fall out of the sky. I should think you'd have to hold the cellphone right in the cockpit to make any difference at all to the avionics, and even then, I wouldn't expect much of an effect. I can talk on a cell phone right next to my computers (with the covers off), and they continue to run. Cell phones are also prohibited by law in banks. You could be imprisoned for six months for turning a cell phone on in a bank in the Philippines. Apparently there is a concern that criminal gangs could watch for large withdrawals of cash and then telephone confederates outside the bank. Of course, the law does not prevent anyone from simply stepping outside the bank to use his phone. I guess calling the cops to report a robbery in progress is out of the question, then. I am surprised that there have not been more restrictions on cell phones. They are the tool of choice for terrorists to detonate their bombs by remote control (we just had a bunch of them in the Philippines a week or two ago). Plus, many of them have small cameras that could be used for surveillance and gathering intelligence. They are almost untraceable; you can use one once and throw it away. Really, perhaps Homeland Security needs to ban the cell phone nationwide. That ought to protect us. Cellphones are too widely used. The general public only accepts bans on things that are not used by the majority of people. The real risk (or lack thereof) is irrelevant. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
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