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Buying a Pitts for aerobatics and touring
I been dreaming to buy a machine to do aerobatics as well as touring.
Currently I'm doing aerobatic training in a Pitts S2A, but its avionics doesn't seem very suitable for touring or navigation exercises. I have seems some Pitts S1S and the same problems. Can anybody advice me what would the best solution to this? CR |
#2
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Buying a Pitts for aerobatics and touring
Buy an Extra- you can fly unlimited level aerobatics in it, but also load it
with enough avionics to fly comfortable cross countries. If you find a used one with long range tanks you can go easy three hour legs at 165 knots. There are some out there with full IFR panels. |
#3
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Buying a Pitts for aerobatics and touring
On Apr 24, 12:34 pm, "Viperdoc" wrote:
Buy an Extra- you can fly unlimited level aerobatics in it, but also load it with enough avionics to fly comfortable cross countries. If you find a used one with long range tanks you can go easy three hour legs at 165 knots. There are some out there with full IFR panels. The only problems with the extra is that is to expensive to buy and operate. The zlin is also a good alternative, but again, little over the budget. CR |
#4
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Buying a Pitts for aerobatics and touring
On 24 Apr 2007 00:13:50 -0700, drclive wrote:
I been dreaming to buy a machine to do aerobatics as well as touring. Currently I'm doing aerobatic training in a Pitts S2A, but its avionics doesn't seem very suitable for touring or navigation exercises. I have seems some Pitts S1S and the same problems. Can anybody advice me what would the best solution to this? CR buy a pitts for aerobatics by all means but buy something you can land in a 20 knot gusting crosswind for touring. a few pitts in australia have been flown home by the new owner all the way to the first cross country landing ....then pranged. ymmv Stealth Pilot |
#5
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Buying a Pitts for aerobatics and touring
"drclive" wrote in message
oups.com... I been dreaming to buy a machine to do aerobatics as well as touring. Currently I'm doing aerobatic training in a Pitts S2A, but its avionics doesn't seem very suitable for touring or navigation exercises. I have seems some Pitts S1S and the same problems. Can anybody advice me what would the best solution to this? CR Nice airplanes, but I would worry less about the avionics (How much do you really need for day VFR???) and more about the limited fuel capacity for "touring". Disclamer: I don't now, and never have, owned one. I have had some dual in a factory Pitts, and I helped some on a "Pitts like" homebuilt - it has an aux tank, larger main tank, and has been cleaned up a bit for better speed/range. Mr. Viperdoc probably knows as much as anyone around here about this kind of aircraft... -- Geoff The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate. |
#6
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Buying a Pitts for aerobatics and touring
drclive wrote:
I been dreaming to buy a machine to do aerobatics as well as touring. Currently I'm doing aerobatic training in a Pitts S2A, but its avionics doesn't seem very suitable for touring or navigation exercises. I have seems some Pitts S1S and the same problems. Can anybody advice me what would the best solution to this? CR Neither the Pitts S1 or S2 versions are really suitable for touring. I have a friend that does airshows in an S1. He loves flying the aerobatics, but he dreads getting there. Not only is the panel limited, the range is not ideal for long cross country jaunts. That narrow cockpit isn't something I'd want to spend a whole lot of time in (at least while straight and level). I'd recommend looking for an RV6/7. They are great cross country machines and stressed for aerobatics. The controls are very light and fast. Well suited for aerobatics. John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180) -- Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com |
#7
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Buying a Pitts for aerobatics and touring
"flynrider via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote in message news:71338767bcae8@uwe... drclive wrote: I been dreaming to buy a machine to do aerobatics as well as touring. Currently I'm doing aerobatic training in a Pitts S2A, but its avionics doesn't seem very suitable for touring or navigation exercises. I have seems some Pitts S1S and the same problems. Can anybody advice me what would the best solution to this? CR Neither the Pitts S1 or S2 versions are really suitable for touring. I have a friend that does airshows in an S1. He loves flying the aerobatics, but he dreads getting there. Not only is the panel limited, the range is not ideal for long cross country jaunts. That narrow cockpit isn't something I'd want to spend a whole lot of time in (at least while straight and level). I'd recommend looking for an RV6/7. They are great cross country machines and stressed for aerobatics. The controls are very light and fast. Well suited for aerobatics. John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180) As an RV-6 Builder/owner/flyer, I second this recommendation. On Sunday, I returned home (solo) from camping at SnF. With a slight tailwind, I was cooking along at 170-180 knots. When I got bored, I performed the occasional roll or lazy 8 to break up the monotony of a 400 nautical mile, 2.5 hour cross country where the airplane probably burned 20 gallons of fuel. My wife and I have taken it from Atlanta to Oshkosh several times with a baggage area full of camping gear and full fuel tanks (good for 600+ nautical miles). Solo and with no baggage, it is capable of +6/-3 aerobatics plus a 50% safety factor. This means loops rolls, wingovers, split esses, Cuban 8's, and any other "gentlemen's" aerobatics are easily within the capabilities of the airplane. Look hard and you can find a nice VFR equipped RV-6 for between $50k and $60k. If you want IFR, you can pay more, or if you are willing to accept an airplane that doesn't have the best aesthetics, you can get one for $50k. RV-4's are priced lower than comparable RV-6's, and allegedly fly even better at the cost of range, space, and payload. KB |
#8
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Buying a Pitts for aerobatics and touring
The Pitts series suffer from short legs, poor visibility, and can be a
challenge to land. A 180 Decathlon is a great plane, comfortable, good visibility, longer legs, and much more suitable for cross countries, but not as good as a Pitts for acro. The Extras take the comfort levels even a step further- many have autopilots, moving maps, etc, and even with all of this gear are still capable of unlimited level aerobatics. In an Extra you sit in a carbon fiber molded seat, while in a Pitts it's a plywood board. I had about 350 hours in a Super Decathlon prior to getting into an Extra 300L. Both are great planes, not only for acro but also for going cross country. The Decathlon is less expensive to run by a lot, has better visibility, and is easier to land. On the other hand, the Extra has a lot more power, longer legs, and is much more capable of high level acro, although most owners buy them like they would a Ferrari, never using them to the max. Also, they can be a handful to land. There are quite a few low time Extra's out there that were purchased by owners who could afford them, but didn't realize how much of a challenge they can be to land (although still a lot easier than a Pitts). The Extra cruises at around 165k, and can go nearly four hours at that speed- you're talking Bonanza level performance in terms of speed. The fit and finish of an Extra are extraordinary, both inside and out. Maintenance is stone simple, since the whole airplane can be opened into six big pieces with just a bunch of screws. Annuals run $800-$1,000, and parts generally easily available, like brakes, engine parts, etc. Support is superb from Southeast Aero. Any questions- ask me off line. Good luck. |
#9
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Buying a Pitts for aerobatics and touring
"Viperdoc" wrote in message ... The Pitts series suffer from short legs, poor visibility, and can be a challenge to land. A 180 Decathlon is a great plane, comfortable, good visibility, longer legs, and much more suitable for cross countries, but not as good as a Pitts for acro. The Extras take the comfort levels even a step further- many have autopilots, moving maps, etc, and even with all of this gear are still capable of unlimited level aerobatics. In an Extra you sit in a carbon fiber molded seat, while in a Pitts it's a plywood board. I had about 350 hours in a Super Decathlon prior to getting into an Extra 300L. Both are great planes, not only for acro but also for going cross country. The Decathlon is less expensive to run by a lot, has better visibility, and is easier to land. On the other hand, the Extra has a lot more power, longer legs, and is much more capable of high level acro, although most owners buy them like they would a Ferrari, never using them to the max. Also, they can be a handful to land. There are quite a few low time Extra's out there that were purchased by owners who could afford them, but didn't realize how much of a challenge they can be to land (although still a lot easier than a Pitts). The Extra cruises at around 165k, and can go nearly four hours at that speed- you're talking Bonanza level performance in terms of speed. The fit and finish of an Extra are extraordinary, both inside and out. Maintenance is stone simple, since the whole airplane can be opened into six big pieces with just a bunch of screws. Annuals run $800-$1,000, and parts generally easily available, like brakes, engine parts, etc. Support is superb from Southeast Aero. Any questions- ask me off line. Good luck. What makes the Extra so difficult to land? I would have thought it would have a LOT of control authority... Is it twitchy? High (relative) stall speed? KB |
#10
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Buying a Pitts for aerobatics and touring
The Extra actually isn't all that hard to land. However, it has a fast sink
rate with the power off, and of course no forward visibility. Pattern techniques generally requires staying close to the runway, and then pulling the throttle abeam the numbers. Keeping the AS at about 90 k, and you usually will make the runway (but not always, with a good headwind). A more difficult scenario is following a Cessna 152 trainer in the pattern who is doing those five mile finals like a 747. Then, I try to keep it high, and slip it in, rather than get low and slow. Over the numbers is actually faster than my Baron, although the higher speed makes crosswinds less of an issue. Once it's down it won't do the Pitts/Eagle hopping around. The biggest issue is the lack of forward visibility, particularly at uncontrolled airports, like where the C-152 in front suddenly decides to use the whole runway, and you can't see what he's doing. Slipping or curving approaches maximize forward visibility until touchdown. In the three point attitude it will touch down before stalling, although I have the stall horn turned off, since it would be going off constantly while doing acro, and a big distraction. So, it's not really that hard to land, but does require some different kinds of planning and thinking ahead. |
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