Vintage Brake upgrade-JJ or anyone else who knows

What is it that these guys do to improve braking?
Assuming all ships could use help, are some (say a
Ventus) more improved then others? How much $. Thank
you.

What is it that these guys do to improve braking?
Assuming all ships could use help, are some (say a
Ventus) more improved then others? How much $. Thank
you.


Reline the shoes with higher performance friction material, and "arc" the new
lining to fit the drum diameter. Have not had my ship done (yet) but am
strongly considering it.


-
Mark Navarre
ASW-20 OD
California, USA
-

I just had this done. $240. Haven't put the wheel back on the glider
yet, so I don't know if it was worth it.



Mark Navarre wrote:

What is it that these guys do to improve braking?
Assuming all ships could use help, are some (say a
Ventus) more improved then others? How much $. Thank
you.



Reline the shoes with higher performance friction material, and "arc" the new
lining to fit the drum diameter. Have not had my ship done (yet) but am
strongly considering it.


-
Mark Navarre
ASW-20 OD
California, USA
-

Where did you get it done, Greg? Most shops won't touch it now for OSHA
reasons. Reply privately, if you wish.

It works on every other kind of vehicle I had it done to back in the drum
brake days.

"Greg Arnold" wrote in message
news:EPd1c.10206$Zp.1082@fed1read07...
I just had this done. $240. Haven't put the wheel back on the glider
yet, so I don't know if it was worth it.



Mark Navarre wrote:

What is it that these guys do to improve braking?
Assuming all ships could use help, are some (say a
Ventus) more improved then others? How much $. Thank
you.



Reline the shoes with higher performance friction material, and "arc"
the new
lining to fit the drum diameter. Have not had my ship done (yet) but am
strongly considering it.


-
Mark Navarre
ASW-20 OD
California, USA
-

John-
Vintage Brake, Sonora 209-533-4346
I googled them but only found dead links.


At 17:12 03 March 2004, John Shelton wrote:
Where did you get it done, Greg? Most shops won't touch
it now for OSHA
reasons. Reply privately, if you wish.

It works on every other kind of vehicle I had it done
to back in the drum
brake days.

'Greg Arnold' wrote in message
news:EPd1c.10206$Zp.1082@fed1read07...
I just had this done. $240. Haven't put the wheel
back on the glider
yet, so I don't know if it was worth it.



Mark Navarre wrote:

What is it that these guys do to improve braking?
Assuming all ships could use help, are some (say a
Ventus) more improved then others? How much $. Thank
you.



Reline the shoes with higher performance friction
material, and 'arc'
the new
lining to fit the drum diameter. Have not had my
ship done (yet) but am
strongly considering it.


-
Mark Navarre
ASW-20 OD
California, USA
-

http://www.vintagebrake.com/


Stewart Kissel wrote:

John-
Vintage Brake, Sonora 209-533-4346
I googled them but only found dead links.


At 17:12 03 March 2004, John Shelton wrote:

Where did you get it done, Greg? Most shops won't touch
it now for OSHA
reasons. Reply privately, if you wish.

It works on every other kind of vehicle I had it done
to back in the drum
brake days.

'Greg Arnold' wrote in message
news:EPd1c.10206$Zp.1082@fed1read07...

I just had this done. $240. Haven't put the wheel
back on the glider
yet, so I don't know if it was worth it.



Mark Navarre wrote:


What is it that these guys do to improve braking?
Assuming all ships could use help, are some (say a
Ventus) more improved then others? How much $. Thank
you.



Reline the shoes with higher performance friction
material, and 'arc'

the new

lining to fit the drum diameter. Have not had my
ship done (yet) but am
strongly considering it.


-
Mark Navarre
ASW-20 OD
California, USA
-

Earlier, Stewart Kissel
wrote:

What is it that these guys do to improve braking?
Assuming all ships could use help, are some (say a
Ventus) more improved then others? How much $. Thank
you.

The "gang of four" for which I delivered brakes to Mr. Morse all seem
happy. When I visited his shop, he seemed knowledgable and methodical.

So far as I know, what he did for the Gang was:

* Inspect all parts for cracks or defects. One of the four iron drums
had lateral cracks near the crenelations that lock it into the
aluminum wheel half. A used replacement wheel half had to be secured
(thanks, JJ).

* Replace the brake shoes with ones having a different compound that
seems more amenable to lighter actuation forces.

* Re-bush the actuation cam pivot if necessary for greater precision
and lower friction.

* Re-bush the backing plate axle hole if necessary to keep the shoes
aligned with the drum under braking forces.

* Turn the brake drum on a lathe with the wheel halves joined and
bolted. It appears that Tost turns their drums using only the wheel
half that contains the drum. But when the halves are joined, the
forces applied by the bolts that secure them together distorts the
drum slightly.

* Turn the brake shoe pairs on a lathe to match their contact surface
to the arc of the drum. The stock shoes don't seem to fit very well in
this regard.

I believe that the average charge for the gang of four was on the
order of $150 or less, depending on what was required.

The Vintage Brake Web site is:

http://www.vintagebrake.com

The tips page has a lot of good advice applicable to the Tost units.

Thanks, and best regards to all

Bob K.
http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24

The bad news is, you still can't honk-on the brakes doing 40 knots. If you do,
you will probably crack the drum. Guess how I know?

I keep everything adjusted up snug and try to only apply the brake below 20
knots.

* Inspect all parts for cracks or
defects. One of the four iron drums
had lateral cracks near the crenelations that lock it into the
aluminum wheel half. A used replacement wheel half had to be secured
(thanks, JJ).

JJ Sinclair

In article ,
Stewart Kissel wrote:

What is it that these guys do to improve braking?
Assuming all ships could use help, are some (say a
Ventus) more improved then others? How much $. Thank
you.




To start with, Michael at Vintage Brake has a primary business of doing
drum brakes for vintage motorcycle racers. This means he has a lot of
experience separating inferior mechanical brake assemblies from quality
ones, he has a large assortment of pad materials on hand, he gets a lot
of feedback from the racers about what works and what didn't, so
ultimately he's got a good grasp of all the variables involved in
picking a compound to match the mechanism and the application.

So, I sent him my LAK-12 main wheel assembly, as the brakes just weren't
up to the task of adequately slowing down a 1000# glider. Although my
glider is Experimental, he won't reject other types; it's up to you and
your mechanic to know what you can/can't do to your glider.

He looked it over, and says the brake components are strong, well made,
good materials used, etc; I think it comes straight out of a Blanki. We
then discussed the typical operating conditions such as runway surface,
temperature, wet/dry, weight. He also wanted cable length and
dimensions of the brake lever pivot assembly.

After all that, he recommended a pad material suited to stopping
something heavy, low duty cycle, no glazing. He installed the new pad
material on the existing shoes, cleaned and examined all pivoting parts,
made sure the drum itself was smooth, then arced the pads to exactly fit
the drums. Total cost was about $150.

What I found was vastly improved braking. It worked great time after
time, with no fading. Only drawback was that it worked a little *too*
well, as vigorous braking at low speeds would lift the tail off the
ground. I spoke with him and he recommended removing material from the
leading edge of the pads, 0.5" at a time, just enough to keep the pad
off the drum.

This improved the situation, but I feel it's really more of an issue
about where the brake is located with reference to the CG. Above
10-15kts full back stick keeps the tail planted, even with full brakes.
Below that speed the tail starts coming up. Some say SZDs exhibit the
same behavior. I'm going to take another 0.5" off this winter and put
on a new tire.

Ken
San Jose, CA

Good answers guys-

JJ's response got me thinking. Because I have greater
elevator authority at higher speeds, I apply much harder
brake when moving fast knowing I can keep the tail
down with back stick. But it sounds like that may
be tough on the drum.

At 18:42 03 March 2004, Ken Ward wrote:
In article ,
Stewart Kissel wrote:

What is it that these guys do to improve braking?

Assuming all ships could use help, are some (say a
Ventus) more improved then others? How much $. Thank
you.




To start with, Michael at Vintage Brake has a primary
business of doing
drum brakes for vintage motorcycle racers. This means
he has a lot of
experience separating inferior mechanical brake assemblies
from quality
ones, he has a large assortment of pad materials on
hand, he gets a lot
of feedback from the racers about what works and what
didn't, so
ultimately he's got a good grasp of all the variables
involved in
picking a compound to match the mechanism and the application.

So, I sent him my LAK-12 main wheel assembly, as the
brakes just weren't
up to the task of adequately slowing down a 1000# glider.
Although my
glider is Experimental, he won't reject other types;
it's up to you and
your mechanic to know what you can/can't do to your
glider.

He looked it over, and says the brake components are
strong, well made,
good materials used, etc; I think it comes straight
out of a Blanki. We
then discussed the typical operating conditions such
as runway surface,
temperature, wet/dry, weight. He also wanted cable
length and
dimensions of the brake lever pivot assembly.

After all that, he recommended a pad material suited
to stopping
something heavy, low duty cycle, no glazing. He installed
the new pad
material on the existing shoes, cleaned and examined
all pivoting parts,
made sure the drum itself was smooth, then arced the
pads to exactly fit
the drums. Total cost was about $150.

What I found was vastly improved braking. It worked
great time after
time, with no fading. Only drawback was that it worked
a little *too*
well, as vigorous braking at low speeds would lift
the tail off the
ground. I spoke with him and he recommended removing
material from the
leading edge of the pads, 0.5' at a time, just enough
to keep the pad
off the drum.

This improved the situation, but I feel it's really
more of an issue
about where the brake is located with reference to
the CG. Above
10-15kts full back stick keeps the tail planted, even
with full brakes.
Below that speed the tail starts coming up. Some say
SZDs exhibit the
same behavior. I'm going to take another 0.5' off
this winter and put
on a new tire.

Ken
San Jose, CA