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#1
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Tamed by the Tailwheel
Yesterday I had an acro lesson scheduled, but since the ceilings were
too low we decided to do some pattern work instead since I'm also working on the TW endorsement. The grass field at the airport had some soft spots from the rain this weekend, so the plan was to fly over to Queens City Airport, just outside of Allentown, PA. While I have managed to make some good three point landings on the grass, the majority of my eight or so hours in the Super Decathlon has been devoted to acro, with pattern work making up only a small percentage of my time up to this point. Although I knew the winds were 310 with gusts between 20-24 kts, when we departed from Rwy 25 I was still surprised at how quickly the wind was pushing me off centerline. I corrected, but as we had been warned by a glider pilot a few minutes earlier, the ten minute trip over was extremely bumpy and likely made worse by the numerous ridges in the area. After arriving I overflew the field to verify the most appropriate runway, which was Rwy 33. My instructor informed me that the pattern is particularly tight, with one reason being that there is a ridge on the approach end of Rwy 33. I flew out and made the 45 to the downwind while getting knocked around the entire time. On the first pattern I found myself rushed and not able to get properly set-up. I knew that I was too fast on final and while I flared at about the right time, I allowed my attitude to fall somewhere between that required for a wheel landing and a three point. Combining those two factors caused me to bounce more times than I care to remember, so I decided to go around. What became readily apparent to me is that while one can get away with excess speed on the grass, the margin for error on the hard top. One the next trip around the pattern I think I was more relaxed and was able to not only get my prop and throttle setting nailed, but I managed to get my speed closer to where it should be. This approach was far more stable with a good flare, but again my attitude was a hybrid between a wheel and three point. I think part of the problem was that I wasn't keeping the stick far enough back for a good three point attitude. My instructor commented that if I had just given it a little more forward pressure it would have been a good wheel landing, although that's not what I was trying to do. We did one more trip around the pattern before heading back and that was probably the worst of the three. Back at Van Sant we had about a 60 degree crosswind, but I managed to keep the upwind wing down. Fortunately, the grass allows more mistakes to be forgiven than on asphalt. I think my biggest problem happens to be speed control. While I'm comfortable with no flap landings in a 172, I think the higher speed on downwind in the SD makes it harder to bleed off speed for the approach. I'm 23 squared on downwind then once abeam the numbers I bring the MP to 15" and prop full forward. At that point my airspeed is about 120 mph. My instructor mentioned that he often keeps cruise speed on downwind until abeam. I've done enough spins and stalls in the SD to know that with throttle to idle it still takes some work getting the airspeed down. Because I don't want to make my pattern too wide I'm reluctant to spend too much time bleeding off airspeed before completing the pattern. But I think that if I can get my airspeed control nailed consistently I can really get a handle on this. When my airspeed is on point my landings are pretty good, but it's a matter of nailing the airspeed more often. Doing this in a 172 is almost a no brainer. Perhaps I should let the instructor demonstrate a few landings for me. It was humbling experience and I felt like I was a new student pilot all over again. I think my feet are still tired from all the dancing I had to do. Dave |
#2
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120 on downwind!!!
You're about 40 mph faster than you should be. It's no wonder you cannot get slowed down! You should be no more than 85 MPH by the time you enter the pattern. If you want to bleed speed, slip it and don't let the airspeed increase when you kick it straight. Forget about the prop until short final. If you are below 1600 RPM at 15" MP, you are probably below the minimum governor speed |
#3
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Dave,
Your speed on downwind is fine, it allows you to mix with other airplanes. Suggest you just pull the power back further when you make the initial reduction and then quit looking at the m.p. gauge and use the power as you need it to descend and hold your speed where you want it. Speed control is utterly essential on tailwheel airplanes. It's okay to be decelerating through the pattern and nail the speed on final. If you're fast, close the throttle and slow down, using a forward slip if necessary, although with a little planning you won't need to slip the airplane. Wait until you are on final for the prop, out of consideration for the folks around the airport. Make sure the throttle is closed before you go into the flare and then strive to get the stick all the way back to the stop before touchdown. It may mean that the tailwheel touches first, but that's perfectly fine, it's designed for it. Have fun finishing the checkout. All the best, Rick |
#4
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Don't worry about keeping the airspeed high on downwind. It's perfectly
ok to do that. Unless you're a student learning to fly patterns, you should be able to fly your pattern at any speed you choose within available parameters for your airplane's configuration. In fact, it's good to get used to doing this, as it's only a matter of time until some controller will ask you to do it for traffic separation. The Decathlon isn't all that slippery that you can't scrub off some airspeed any time you wish. Trust me, I've done it hundreds of times. Just play the approach and the airspeed accordingly, configuring the airplane the way you want it as you turn base and onto final. Just make sure, and this is especially important in tailwheels, that you are configured correctly for airspeed, altitude, and attitude, as you cross the threshold prior to flare transitioning. Dudley Henriques International Fighter Pilots Fellowship Commercial Pilot/CFI Retired for private email; make necessary changes between ( ) dhenriques(at)(delete all this)earthlink(dot)net wrote in message ups.com... Yesterday I had an acro lesson scheduled, but since the ceilings were too low we decided to do some pattern work instead since I'm also working on the TW endorsement. The grass field at the airport had some soft spots from the rain this weekend, so the plan was to fly over to Queens City Airport, just outside of Allentown, PA. While I have managed to make some good three point landings on the grass, the majority of my eight or so hours in the Super Decathlon has been devoted to acro, with pattern work making up only a small percentage of my time up to this point. Although I knew the winds were 310 with gusts between 20-24 kts, when we departed from Rwy 25 I was still surprised at how quickly the wind was pushing me off centerline. I corrected, but as we had been warned by a glider pilot a few minutes earlier, the ten minute trip over was extremely bumpy and likely made worse by the numerous ridges in the area. After arriving I overflew the field to verify the most appropriate runway, which was Rwy 33. My instructor informed me that the pattern is particularly tight, with one reason being that there is a ridge on the approach end of Rwy 33. I flew out and made the 45 to the downwind while getting knocked around the entire time. On the first pattern I found myself rushed and not able to get properly set-up. I knew that I was too fast on final and while I flared at about the right time, I allowed my attitude to fall somewhere between that required for a wheel landing and a three point. Combining those two factors caused me to bounce more times than I care to remember, so I decided to go around. What became readily apparent to me is that while one can get away with excess speed on the grass, the margin for error on the hard top. One the next trip around the pattern I think I was more relaxed and was able to not only get my prop and throttle setting nailed, but I managed to get my speed closer to where it should be. This approach was far more stable with a good flare, but again my attitude was a hybrid between a wheel and three point. I think part of the problem was that I wasn't keeping the stick far enough back for a good three point attitude. My instructor commented that if I had just given it a little more forward pressure it would have been a good wheel landing, although that's not what I was trying to do. We did one more trip around the pattern before heading back and that was probably the worst of the three. Back at Van Sant we had about a 60 degree crosswind, but I managed to keep the upwind wing down. Fortunately, the grass allows more mistakes to be forgiven than on asphalt. I think my biggest problem happens to be speed control. While I'm comfortable with no flap landings in a 172, I think the higher speed on downwind in the SD makes it harder to bleed off speed for the approach. I'm 23 squared on downwind then once abeam the numbers I bring the MP to 15" and prop full forward. At that point my airspeed is about 120 mph. My instructor mentioned that he often keeps cruise speed on downwind until abeam. I've done enough spins and stalls in the SD to know that with throttle to idle it still takes some work getting the airspeed down. Because I don't want to make my pattern too wide I'm reluctant to spend too much time bleeding off airspeed before completing the pattern. But I think that if I can get my airspeed control nailed consistently I can really get a handle on this. When my airspeed is on point my landings are pretty good, but it's a matter of nailing the airspeed more often. Doing this in a 172 is almost a no brainer. Perhaps I should let the instructor demonstrate a few landings for me. It was humbling experience and I felt like I was a new student pilot all over again. I think my feet are still tired from all the dancing I had to do. Dave |
#5
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I think you did well. Those windspeeds are not for learning!
It is definitely easier on grass ("the grass tarmac") than on asphalt. I am always ready to convert a wheel landing into a three-pointer. It's never happened that I intend a three-pointer and convert it to a wheelie, but if it should happen that way, why not? -- all the best, Dan Ford email (put Cubdriver in subject line) Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com the blog: www.danford.net |
#6
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perfect thread for me since i just did my first tailwheel lesson yesterday. citabria 7gcbc. runway 9 wind 180@15 or so. some gustiness but mostly just a strong-steady blow. for a first lesson i sure got my money's worth. by the end, she had me running on one wheel and holding it right down the centerline. plan on getting the tw endorsment then some aerobatics and lots of spin and unusual (like in how the hell did i wind up upside down and backwards???)attitude training. dan |
#7
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#8
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rmack,
Trim the airplane more aggressively on short final if you are having difficulty getting the nose up. Slide in some extra nose up trim when on short final, it will help. If you run out of elevator, slide in nose down trim to get more effective elevator area but be prepared to pull like crazy to take advantage of it. It's impossible to get it "too nose high" on landing. Believe it or not, it's okay to roll the tailwheel first. You touch down even more slowly and have better control and less risk of a loss of control accident on rollout. The slower you touch down the less energy you have to manage during rollout. All the best, Rick |
#9
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With due respect to all who have replied with various techniques, it
seems everyone is working with way too much airspeed! Now I don't claim to be the base ace or ass, whichever comes to mind, but I do have a lot of time in aircraft with the wheel in the rear and god only knows how many thousands of landings with them (perhaps 20-30,000+?). The apparent discussions as to wheel or tail aka "3 point" is amusing since the ultimate outcome is supposed to be a safe and uneventful landing to a full stop...isn't it? In thousands of hours in crop dusting in a variety of aircraft, dirt/grass/asphalt/concrete for landing areas, I never knew if it was going to be a 3 point or a wheel landing. Most of the time it was a slow speed wheel landing with minimum roll and braking or reverse thrust. We didn't have time to screw around with rollouts and holding centerline or whatever. We needed to land, get reloaded and back into the air. The time we spent not spraying was non-revenue. Many of the strips were barely as wide as the landing gear and difficult to work from/on. The biggest flaw I have seen in modern pilots is speed control and right behind that is not knowing how to use rudder/aileron coordination for landings. It continually amazes me at the lack of skill or even knowledge of CFI's when it comes to slips with any degree of accuracy. It all seems to be very pedantic with little or no pilot skills involved. I am continually reminded of that when I fly with pilots who have gotten their certificates in the past 15 years or so. There is no magic in flying tail draggers any more than flying trikes vs tailwheel, turboprops vs radial engine vs piston. Its a matter of good technique and from what I read across the boards, it is a dying art. No wonder I am called an old gray haired hardnosed as$hole. Anybody can fly at cruise speeds. Who can fly on the lowest reaches of the envelope with complete control and understanding of what they are doing? There is the challenge. Ol Shy & Not So Bashful (this time) |
#10
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wrote in message oups.com... With due respect to all who have replied with various techniques, it seems everyone is working with way too much airspeed! Now I don't claim to be the base ace or ass, whichever comes to mind, but I do have a lot of time in aircraft with the wheel in the rear and god only knows how many thousands of landings with them (perhaps 20-30,000+?). The apparent discussions as to wheel or tail aka "3 point" is amusing since the ultimate outcome is supposed to be a safe and uneventful landing to a full stop...isn't it? In thousands of hours in crop dusting in a variety of aircraft, dirt/grass/asphalt/concrete for landing areas, I never knew if it was going to be a 3 point or a wheel landing. Most of the time it was a slow speed wheel landing with minimum roll and braking or reverse thrust. We didn't have time to screw around with rollouts and holding centerline or whatever. We needed to land, get reloaded and back into the air. The time we spent not spraying was non-revenue. Many of the strips were barely as wide as the landing gear and difficult to work from/on. The biggest flaw I have seen in modern pilots is speed control and right behind that is not knowing how to use rudder/aileron coordination for landings. It continually amazes me at the lack of skill or even knowledge of CFI's when it comes to slips with any degree of accuracy. It all seems to be very pedantic with little or no pilot skills involved. I am continually reminded of that when I fly with pilots who have gotten their certificates in the past 15 years or so. There is no magic in flying tail draggers any more than flying trikes vs tailwheel, turboprops vs radial engine vs piston. Its a matter of good technique and from what I read across the boards, it is a dying art. No wonder I am called an old gray haired hardnosed as$hole. Anybody can fly at cruise speeds. Who can fly on the lowest reaches of the envelope with complete control and understanding of what they are doing? There is the challenge. Ol Shy & Not So Bashful (this time) Are you telling me I work my airplanes at too high an airspeed, and am advising others to do the same? Dudley Henriques International Fighter Pilots Fellowship Commercial Pilot/CFI Retired for private email; make necessary changes between ( ) dhenriques(at)(delete all this)earthlink(dot)net |
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