How do you find the limits of areas on a chart?

Mxsmanic wrote:

Unfortunately, if you plan to go from one urban area to another, you
see a lot of them. And out in the western U.S. at least, it seems
like most of the land is covered by restricted areas or MOAs.

give an example of where that would be a problem.

MOAs are no biggy; you talk to the nice controller just to be on the
safe side --- you don't even have to, but it's good form unless you
like surprises -- and you are set. When there are a bunch of controlled
airspace close together, your best bet is either to fly above them if
you don't want to talk to anybody, or better yet talk to the nice
controller and once again, you are set. When flying IFR it's even
simpler (since the whole idea of these complicated controlled airspace
is precisely to make the life of IFR folks simpler); I fly mostly around
San Francisco Bay Area where airspace is a tad complex, and it's not
really a problem; same thing when flying near LA; talk to the nice
controllers, follow the rules, piece of cake; Restricted airspace
might or might not be a problem; again, talk to the nice controller
and ask nicely; I have flown right smack overhead Edwards AFB a few
times to take a short cut to/from Las Vegas (I never tried to ask
about flying through the restricted airspaces north of Las Vegas
though, not all R- areas being created equal :-) )

again this is something that looks a lot more complicated from afar
than it actually becomes when you get a chance of doing it for real,

--Sylvain

Mxsmanic wrote:

For example, look at the terminal chart for KLAX.

if you have the terminal chart for LA, and want to
fly through the thing VFR, just turn it over and
look at the VFR corridors and/or recommended routes
which are clearly defined, follow them and you
are set. Alternatively, file IFR and it's even
simpler.

--Sylvain

Mxsmanic wrote:

Just out of curiosity, how much do new charts cost, and how many do
you regularly replace as they expire?

about 8 bucks; and I religiously replace the one where I fly regularly;
but there are other options: I started using the 'Air Chart Systems'
which is pretty neat; you get an atlas with all the sectional for the
western half (or eastern half) of the country, and regular cumulative
updates in the mail; when planning a flight I look at the latest
update to see what changed if anything along the route I want to
fly and I am set. I buy the terminal charts and AF/D separately though.

--Sylvain

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Gary Drescher writes:

A joystick with a POV hat-switch makes it pretty easy to look around.

That's what I've configured, but it still is awkward. First, if you
don't turn off all the cockpit details, there's a pause as the sim
generates them when you change your viewpoint. Also, at least on my
joystick, it's hard to position the hat precisely for 45-degree
angles, and there is still some bizarre interaction with the throttle
and other controls that I don't understand. I still use it sometimes,
though. If it were instantaneous and easier to manipulate, it would
be very convenient. Maybe then I could fly patterns a little bit
easier.

--
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Sounds like your toy isn't very realistic and definately does not represent
real flight.

Mxsmanic wrote:
What is a Wizwheel? It sounds almost like a slide rule.
Slide rules are obsolete now, but they were (and remain) extremely
well suited to some of the types of calculations that pilots and
others must do rapidly under less than ideal conditions. Does anyone
still use them for aviation?

Yes, it's usually required by instructors. See this entry (I wrote the
history section) :


Called a Whiz Wheel, because either only a "Whiz" could figure it out, or
because, once it is figured out, you said.. GeeWhiz.. that was easy..

A "WhizWheel" or E6B is nothing more than a circular slide rule.
In Jr High, when it was time to learn slide rules, I had problem with it. A
very wise math teacher handed me a circular slide rule and the instruction
manual and suggested I take it home for the weekend. Come Monday morning
math class, I was solving the problems before any one else.

When it came time for pilot training, they introduced the E6B. Ah Ha... I
knew what that was.. this is going to be easy.

BT

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Gig 601XL Builder writes:

The chart has a metric butt load of landmarks. Hell, I'd go so far to say
that it is mostly landmarks.

I don't see that many, but even if that were true, do you really have
time to continually check them all to see how close you are to nearby
airspace boundaries, while in flight?

You obviously have no idea how to read a map or a sectional.


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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
news
I don't do it a lot, but that is more because it is so awkward than
because I don't want to. I'd certainly like to be able to just look
off to the right or left, although the aircraft blocks a lot of the
view (you can turn the aircraft off in the sim, but that's cheating a
bit).

Still, you wouldn't get the effect of easily leaning over and looking
below you (unless you had a screen below you too. Which is an
interesting idea :-)

What happens when you need to look down to the right? When I do that,
all I see is the wing. In fact, the wing is a problem on the left
side, too.

In real flying, you can turn the plane to get a better view of something
that is blocked by a wing, strut, cowling, etc. You can also change your
position to get a better view by leaning forward or whatever. One of the
maneuvers that we do during training and FR's are turns-around-a-point, bank
the plane and put the wingtip on a landmark and circle that landmark keeping
it in sight; probably not (as) easy to do on a sim.

As we look out the windows while flying, we'll see a lake there, a railroad
track running that way, a town over there and can easily figure out from the
current view where we are on the sectional. As we pass the lake, town, etc.,
we'll pick out other landmarks to determine our current position. It's not
that hard to do.

GPS just makes it easier but isn't required.

If the latter, when all else fails, some pilots fall back on an advanced
technique that is all but forgotten in this age of GPS. It's called
"looking out the window for landmarks."

rg

more historically refered to as "pilotage"

BT

Do you mean how do you find the boundary as depicted on the chart, or
how do you relate the depicted boundary to an actual physical location
out in the real world?

How do I relate it to the real world? In other words, how do I know,
as I fly along, whether I'm inside or outside a boundary? Very often
the boundaries cross largely empty areas of the chart, with no precise
indications of how to locate the boundary in the real world.

If the latter, when all else fails, some pilots fall back on an advanced
technique that is all but forgotten in this age of GPS. It's called
"looking out the window for landmarks."

But the charts don't have that many landmarks, and the boundaries
rarely seem to be based on landmarks; instead, they seem to have been
surveyed.


You call up flight service 5 days before your flight and give them your
flight plan, then on the day you fly your planned course is drawn on the
ground for you to follow, danger areas on either side are highlighted with
red boundries painted on the ground.

Mxsmanic wrote:
What is a Wizwheel? It sounds almost like a slide rule.

it is. You have basically two main designs still in use,
the E6B style and the ones like the CR5; the difference is
mainly in the way you compute the wind triangles (I use
both, because I enjoy slide rules in general, but frankly,
the plain E6B is more intuitive IMHO; the CR models also
allow more complex computations, but for practical purposes
the plain ol' aluminum E6B works fine (and doesn't melt when
left on the dashboard);

Slide rules are obsolete now,

No they are not; well, ok, you are half right he they
are considered obsolte but it's a darn shame. You can spot
miles away engineers who did learn with slide rules from
those who didn't, but I digress.

Does anyone still use them for aviation?

I do; never runs out of batteries, always there, and easy
to use;

--Sylvain