How do you find the limits of areas on a chart?

Mxsmanic wrote:
B A R R Y writes:


The expired chart offer still stands... G


Postage overseas is expensive.

Yeah, it might cost a dollar to mail a chart to Frogland.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Judah writes:

No, you are having trouble because you don't know how to read a
sectional. That became obvious in your question about the Turtle MOA.

I'm an excellent map reader. If I followed your suggestion, I'd have
a guided missile passing through the fuselage.

I'm afraid you are incorrect. You misread the map, and you have no idea what
an MOA is.

Mxsmanic wrote:
I don't see that many, but even if that were true, do you really have
time to continually check them all to see how close you are to nearby
airspace boundaries, while in flight?

This is just getting hilarious. Even w/o an autopilot, it's so
much easier flying a real airplane than stupid MSFS (have every
version since 1.0), it's nice to have something to do. Makes the
flight go quicker. Hell, even under IFR, if there's no cloud
below me, I like to reference a sectional to see what curious
things are down there. And yes, Virginia, that includes while
tending to: listening/talking to ATC, staying on airway (wind dir
shifts), correcting for altitude deviations due to up/downdrafts,
planning when I need a descent should ATC not timely initiate,
reviewing any STAR and the approach plate(s) again....

F--

"Judah" wrote in message
. ..
The same sort of judgement of distances is possible when piloting an
airplane. Someone who learns to fly in the real worlds learns to discern
three dimensions and estimate distance. Unfortunately, this cannot be
effectively done on a two-dimensional simulator screen.

I don't think that's true. Except when you're within a few feet of the
ground, depth perception by binary parallax and focal length doesn't come
into play when you're flying; so except for the landing flare, a 2D screen
is sufficient. All the navigation tasks Mx is asking about can be performed
quite nicely using MSFS; in fact, it's great practice.

--Gary

"Kev" wrote in message
oups.com...
That's a good point. While you can pick out some landmarks on a sim
screen, it's very difficult to constantly rotate your view around and
get the spatial relationship that you can in real life.

A joystick with a POV hat-switch makes it pretty easy to look around.

--Gary

Gary Drescher wrote:
"Kev" wrote in message
oups.com...
That's a good point. While you can pick out some landmarks on a sim
screen, it's very difficult to constantly rotate your view around and
get the spatial relationship that you can in real life.

A joystick with a POV hat-switch makes it pretty easy to look around.

Yeah, but how many simmers constantly flip their view around? Pilots
using it for practice, sure. But non-pilots wouldn't normally do it,
methinks.

Now if you had one of those head-tracker thingies, or multiple screens
with side views, that might be a different story. No work involved.
Still, you wouldn't get the effect of easily leaning over and looking
below you (unless you had a screen below you too. Which is an
interesting idea :-)

Cheers, Kev

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Judah writes:

No, you are having trouble because you don't know how to read a
sectional. That became obvious in your question about the Turtle MOA.

I'm an excellent map reader. If I followed your suggestion, I'd have
a guided missile passing through the fuselage.

"You're an excellent map reader. An excellent map reader. Sometimes Daddy
lets you read maps in the driveway.

Uh Oh!

Wopner at 5! Wopner at 5!"

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Gary Drescher writes:

However, airspaces in such close proximity almost always occur in
congested
areas where a plethora of landmarks let you identify the boundaries with
precision. Do you have a contrary example in mind?

I usually use the GPS, because it takes too long to switch back and
forth from instruments to window to sectional or terminal chart.

If you're trying to simulate pilotage without using paper (or other
off-screen) charts, then you have a challenge that is unrelated to aviation,
or even to simulator use per se. I'm sorry, but I can't help with that (nor
would this be an appropriate forum in which to try).

--Gary

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Judah writes:

You would observe the Pinto Mountains intersecting the Sheep Hole
Mountains, and know that the edge of the MOA is about halfway between
that and the Cadiz Lake... It's pretty distinct, actually, if you know
how to read a sectional.

You're too far south, and too far east. The western tip is actually
at N34°14'00" W115°30'00", and the southern border runs along the
aforementioned parallel, but without a reliable indicator of your
exact latitude and longitude in the cockpit, this doesn't help much
(although it can be readily seen from the sectional in this case).

That depends on your goal. If your goal is to stay clear of the MOA, you're
in exactly the right place - a couple of miles outside the MOA. If you goal
is to fly into the MOA through it's southwestern tip, you might just aim
for the north end of the Coxcomb Mountains.

If your goal is to fly VFR between the Turtle and Bristol MOAs, assuming
you were starting at or near TNP, you would probably aim for Dale Lake,
then fly over the Sheep Hole Mountains toward the western tip of Cadiz
Lake. Then you would look for the Cadiz airport and the 3239' peak just
south of Danby (both would likely be easily discernable) and fly directly
between the two, keeping the 1024' hill off to your left. Then you could
follow the power lines up and through, or you could keep the Old Woman
Mountains off to your right a couple of miles until reaching the Clipper
Mountains.

If you were further making your way to Eagle, you'd see the power lines
intersect Rte 40, and turn right aiming for the Colorado River.

I've never been to that area of the country myself, but it sure looks
pretty easy to navigate.

"Kev" wrote in news:1162497676.261765.239690
@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

That's a good point. While you can pick out some landmarks on a sim
screen, it's very difficult to constantly rotate your view around and
get the spatial relationship that you can in real life.

Oh good. I knew SOMETHING good would have to come of these deteriorating
Manic threads...