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#71
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How do you find the limits of areas on a chart?
Mxsmanic wrote: I see tons of restricted areas, MOAs, Class B, C, D, E airspace, and the like on charts, but no clear indication of how to locate the boundaries of these areas other than by pure guesstimate based on looking at the chart. On rare occasions I see a radial noted as the boundary of an area, or a radius, but in many cases there is nothing. How in the world are you supposed to know when you are inside or outside one of these areas, if you are not flying miles away from them? Yes, GPS units and some other devices may provide real-time display of one's position with these areas superimposed, but such devices have not always been available. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. I'm assuming your are talking about cross country flights. Most pilots get to know their local area really well without a map. If you are flying vfr you should be identifying visual checkpoints constantly and if you are on a X/C flight you should be flying your flight plan, even if you don't file. You need to know where you are and where you are headed at all times. If it gets too hazy to identify ground references than you are probably in marginal vfr or worse. If you want to fly higher than the turkey vultures I suggest you buy a really good gps and keep the thing updated. Or better yet spend the time and money and get an ifr rating and go play at altitude with ATC. The thing that concerns me most when I fly X/C vfr is the TFR's that pop up suddenly, especially around election time. You can get a briefing and 10 minutes later the Pres. or VP or some Senator decides to change his destination to yours, and if you're not talking to somebody to let you know what's going on.., well good luck. I use to fly more vfr X/C's but not anymore. Now I just file ifr, go high and enjoy the fuel savings. FlynCatfish |
#72
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How do you find the limits of areas on a chart?
"Gary Drescher" wrote in message ... "Judah" wrote in message . .. The same sort of judgement of distances is possible when piloting an airplane. Someone who learns to fly in the real worlds learns to discern three dimensions and estimate distance. Unfortunately, this cannot be effectively done on a two-dimensional simulator screen. I don't think that's true. Except when you're within a few feet of the ground, depth perception by binary parallax and focal length doesn't come into play when you're flying; so except for the landing flare, a 2D screen is sufficient. All the navigation tasks Mx is asking about can be performed quite nicely using MSFS; in fact, it's great practice. While MSFS has some great scenery especially around the larger urban areas it isn't accurate enough to navigate by especially in non-urban areas. |
#73
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How do you find the limits of areas on a chart?
"Wolfgang Schwanke" wrote in message ... Mxsmanic wrote in I usually use the GPS, because it takes too long to switch back and forth from instruments to window to sectional or terminal chart. Your original question was how to do it without technology, and your questioning that it was possible at all. Wolfgang have you not read his posts? This is his MO. |
#74
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How do you find the limits of areas on a chart?
On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 10:47:38 +0100, Mxsmanic wrote:
Robert M. Gary writes: The sectional chart is used with a plotter. The plotter measures distance and can figure direction. I googled for this and found only software. I presume you mean the mechanical arm-like device that I've seen being using with flat charts on tables in movies? No, the plotter he's talking about is a combined protractor and ruler made of transparent plastic. The ruler's scales are calibrated to match distances on aeronautical charts. You can see what they look like at: http://www.sportys.com/acb/webpage.cfm?&DID=19&WebPage_ID=68 Certainly that might be useful, but what about during flight? Chart tables would be awkward in the cockpit (although large aircraft with navigators might have them). It's possible to whip out a plotter and measure distances and headings on a folded-up sectional chart in your lap in a typical light aircraft cockpit, but it's not very convenient. Typically you'd use a plotter for flight planning on the ground. Use the ruler to draw a line on the chart along your intended course, use the protractor to measure the angle between your course and a north-south line on the chart, and use the scale on the ruler to find distances. To answer your original question, in the pre-GPS era most people would plot course legs that would keep them well clear of restricted airspace. Make sure you stay near your planned course using a combination of pilotage and dead reckoning, and you don't have to worry about exactly where the boundary of the restricted airspace is. Seriously, if you want to learn this stuff, you might want to buy a private pilot ground school textbook of some sort, a plotter, and a sectional chart or two. Use the textbook to find out how to plan a flight using a plotter and charts, and then fly it in your simulator. ljd |
#75
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How do you find the limits of areas on a chart?
In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote: Roy Smith writes: What I have found works well is to just wing it. If I guess wrong, an F-16 pulls up beside me and gives me directions. It's really a very convenient system. Has that actually happened? Don't you risk being cited for the airspace violation? No worries about being violated. I always keep a PBA card in the windshield. |
#76
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How do you find the limits of areas on a chart?
On 11/2/06 4:58 AM, in article ,
"Mxsmanic" wrote: Dan writes: I think if you're going to thread tight areas in an unfamiliar metro area these days, you'd better have a GPS with airspace depiction. Sure, you may be able to do it via pilotage, but then again you could easily screw up and bust class B (or worse). I think a GPS is useful in any case--but how do pilots without moving maps and GPS do it? VOR triangulation. It's technical. -- Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino Cartoons with a Touch of Magic http://www.wizardofdraws.com More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic http://www.cartoonclipart.com |
#77
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How do you find the limits of areas on a chart?
Gig 601XL Builder wrote: While MSFS has some great scenery especially around the larger urban areas it isn't accurate enough to navigate by especially in non-urban areas. Depends on what add-ons you have. Many new ones have the terrain derived from satellite imagery. For example, with MegaScenery New York, I can fly around a lot of northern New Jersey and actually follow the roads to my house. People in England have add-ons that reportedly let them see their house! And... coolest of all... someone did an addon instrument that reportedly lets you drive Google Earth in sync with MSFS. So you get the satellite imagery there along with arrows to airports if you wish etc. Kev |
#78
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How do you find the limits of areas on a chart?
Robert M. Gary writes:
Two answers. First, when I'm flying my Mooney around at near the speed of sound I just have a rough idea of where the airspace is and use ATC and the GPS to avoid it. What type of Mooney is it? I didn't know there were any that could approach the speed of sound. However, when I fly the J-3 (and when I first started flying) I carried a small plotter. You can use it in flight. In fact I'm required to make sure my students can use it in flight for navigation and diversion. You can use it in flight. I still carry a small plotter in the pocket of my seat. I have multiple scales on it so I can use it for IFR charts too but it also works for sectionals. I looked up "chart plotter" on Google, but I don't seem to be finding any mechanical devices, just software for PCs and the like. I have one that has a Wizwheel built in and I use it regularly. Its easier for me to figure TAS using the wizwheel then puching numbers into the GPS to computer it. The Wizwheel is still a close friend of mine. When I flew the GPS, the Wizwheel, my watch, and my plotter were the *only* navigation tools I had. What is a Wizwheel? It sounds almost like a slide rule. Slide rules are obsolete now, but they were (and remain) extremely well suited to some of the types of calculations that pilots and others must do rapidly under less than ideal conditions. Does anyone still use them for aviation? -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#79
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How do you find the limits of areas on a chart?
Wolfgang Schwanke writes:
http://www.flightstore.co.uk/images/...rop_1_1241.jpg Thanks. Still looks a bit awkward to use in flight. I mean, you have to manipulate the device and the chart at the same time, and you have no table, and you still have to fly the plane. It looks very awkward. You do your flight planning before take-off. But what if the plan must change during the flight? Traditionally, you draw a line on the map along the path you plan to fly, you mark it with time ticks, and in regular intervals you mark important landmarks that allow you to check that you're still on course. You only really have to do map work when an expected landmark doesn't show up at the expected time, causing you to suspect that you're off course. The map must get pretty messy after a while, although I suppose that if you have to buy a new one every month, it doesn't matter too much. It's hard to imagine squinting at the map in flight. Multiple pilots have told me that it's possible, though. I'd have to watch them do it to see how they manage. Certainly reading maps in a car is extremely awkward, although aircraft can be configured to fly in a more stable way than a car drives, so I suppose that helps. Having a copilot would change everything, of course. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#80
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How do you find the limits of areas on a chart?
Laurence Doering writes:
No, the plotter he's talking about is a combined protractor and ruler made of transparent plastic. The ruler's scales are calibrated to match distances on aeronautical charts. You can see what they look like at: http://www.sportys.com/acb/webpage.cfm?&DID=19&WebPage_ID=68 I see now. Thanks. Still looks a bit inconvenient for use in flight, although it would be easy enough to use for planning on a desk or table. Not very expensive, either, compared to most of the other stuff on the site ($995 for a pair of headphones that costs only $20 to make??). Definitely a rich man's hobby. It's possible to whip out a plotter and measure distances and headings on a folded-up sectional chart in your lap in a typical light aircraft cockpit, but it's not very convenient. And the aircraft is still flying. I know aircraft can be configured to fly straight and level for long distances, especially with an autopilot, but still ... it seems that one could get into trouble quickly while peering at the chart. Typically you'd use a plotter for flight planning on the ground. Use the ruler to draw a line on the chart along your intended course, use the protractor to measure the angle between your course and a north-south line on the chart, and use the scale on the ruler to find distances. That sounds easy enough. To answer your original question, in the pre-GPS era most people would plot course legs that would keep them well clear of restricted airspace. Make sure you stay near your planned course using a combination of pilotage and dead reckoning, and you don't have to worry about exactly where the boundary of the restricted airspace is. I'm glad that my original question is being answered, thanks. Seriously, if you want to learn this stuff, you might want to buy a private pilot ground school textbook of some sort, a plotter, and a sectional chart or two. Use the textbook to find out how to plan a flight using a plotter and charts, and then fly it in your simulator. I'm not sure what books to buy, and I can't buy anything off the Net because I don't have a working credit card. There are a couple of good pilot shops here, but their choice of English-language books is limited (and very expensive, as always), with most stuff being in French. Similarly, the only charts I can find locally are French charts, and my simulator flights are mostly in the western United States. I can find the charts online now, but obviously it's hard to use this plotter device with an LCD screen. Nevertheless, I'm trying to use the online charts more for flight planning, particularly for flights with VATSIM, where others might notice my mistakes. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
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